(March 23, 2014 at 7:34 am)Thunder Cunt Wrote: Your claim that the RCC made their decision on the Canon in the 16th Century is way, way, WAY false!Really? Then explain why at the Council of Trent they decreed that the Latin Vulgate was Sola Scriptura? Here is the decree:
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Here are the important bits...
- But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema.
- Moreover, the same sacred and holy Synod,—considering that no small utility may accrue to the Church of God, if it be made known which out of all the Latin editions, now in circulation, of the sacred books, is to be held as authentic,—ordains and declares, that the said old and vulgate edition, which, by the lengthened usage of so many ages, has been approved of in the Church, be, in public lectures, disputations, sermons and expositions, held as authentic; and that no one is to dare, or presume to reject it under any pretext whatever.
Quote:Nope, Pope Damasus (382) listed the current books in the new testament and OT Canon as it is in the Catholic Bible. the Councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage in the late fourth century formed the Catholic Canon which the Church always accepted. THe Canon was confirmed, reafirmed, reaffirmed, reaffirmed, and then closed.Not accurate at all, that's before the Catholic Church as we know it.
Quote:In the 16th Century the Canon came under attack so the Church had to once again define "THIS IS THE CORRECT CANON".No it didn't, the canon was never threatened. The protestants preferred the original Greek and Hebrew texts, and to translate from these, and the RCC decreed themselves to be the sole authority over scripture and the interpreter of the scripture.
When is the first RCC approved translation into English of the Bible to use the original Greek and Hebrew?
Hell, the early list of Biblical translations into English from the original languages are... Tyndale, Coverdale's Bible (the first complete English Bible), Matthew(/Taverner's Edition), Great Bible, Geneva, Bishops and Authorised Version. The RCC had Tyndale executed and burned at the steak, they also had John Rogers executed and burned at the steak too. Creating translations of the Bible from the original languages was a heresy in the eyes of the RCC, and so too was rejecting the authority of the RCC. The RCC persecuted those who distributed or possessed these Bible, and they burned the Bibles. The Great Bible is the first English Bible that was authorised by a Church (the CoE).
Now that you've reminded me of it, the Index Librorum Prohibitorum banned all non-Catholic approved translations of the Bible (Pope Paul IV, 1559) and it was abolished by Pope Paul VI in 1966 just 18 years after its last official revision was made in 1948!
More to the point though, it was in 1229 at the Council of Toulouse that it was decreed that the laity were forbidden to possess copies of the Bible and again in 1234 at the Council of Tarragona. Catholics have a hard time explaining this and typically they'll state that the councils are not official or other such nonsense, well if that's the case then explain this:
- We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old and the New Testament; unless anyone from the motives of devotion should wish to have the Psalter or the Breviary for divine offices or the hours of the blessed Virgin; but we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books.’ (Edward Peters. Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Council of Toulouse, 1229, Canon 14, p 195.)
‘Since it is clear from experience that if the Sacred Books are permitted everywhere and without discrimination in the vernacular, there will by reason of the boldness of men arise therefrom more harm than good, the matter is in this respect left to the judgment of the bishop or inquisitor, who may with the advice of the pastor or confessor permit the reading of the Sacred Books translated into the vernacular by Catholic authors to those who they know will derive from such reading no harm but rather an increase of faith and piety, which permission they must have in writing. Those, however, who presume to read or possess them without such permission may not receive absolution from their sins till they have handed them over to the ordinary. Bookdealers who sell or in any other way supply Bibles written in the vernacular to anyone who has not this permission, shall lose the price of the books, which is to be applied by the bishop to pious purposes, and in keeping with the nature of the crime they shall be subject to other penalties which are left to the judgment of the same bishop. Regulars who have not the permission of their superiors may not read or purchase them.’ (Council of Trent: Rules on Prohibited Books, approved by Pope Pius IV, 1564).
So, remember when I asked you when the RCC first got their approved English translation translated from the Greek and Hebrew? The Douay-Rheims version was completed in 1610 and it was the only English version approved and used by the RCC until 1966 when the Jerusalem Bible was completed. TJB was not directly translated from Greek and Hebrew, although it did use them the main textual basis for the translation was La Bible de Jérusalem. The RSV-CE was however also approved by the RCC and released in 1966 (the translators comprised of Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant and even Jewish scholars). The NJB was completed in 1985 and was the first English translation have been translated by the RCC exclusively by Catholic Scholars whose primary textual basis were the Hebrew and Greek texts. 480 years after Tyndale! Protestants by that time had more than 30 translations in English.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke