(April 14, 2014 at 5:54 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:(April 14, 2014 at 1:20 pm)RobbyPants Wrote: ...it's still possible to sin, repent, and then sin again... Part of Christian doctrine is that you will keep on sinning.According to many Christians that is the case, but not all. In New Church doctrine repentance means to turn away from sin and not return to it. There are no 'magic words' and its more than just feeling regret full. Your whole being must change such that sin becomes aborant to you. What I meant earlier is that there are three degrees of repentance: a permanent change of heart, renewal of the mind, and manifest action.
So, you're saying salvation is based on works, then? Most Christians I talk to say it's based on grace, and they give very nebulous answers as to what repentance is. Now, I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong, but it does totally sound works-based, and not grace-based. You just listed some rather strict (unattainable?) criteria that a person has to fulfill on top of accepting Jesus as their lord and savior.
(April 14, 2014 at 5:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Christians are punished the same way as non-christians. They go to jail. get the death penaly, are fined, etc. Look at the punishments for the Jews under the old testament law - pretty tough. An atheist who commits crimes all his life and dies without being caught also "gets away with murder". As far as those who sinned all their lives and truly repented before death - that's the benefit of Jesus paying the penalty for us. Repentance is available to everybody equally, including athiests. Of course, for someone who plans to be a criminal all his life and repent at the last minute, that doesn't pass because that's not true repentance.
Yeah, I never said they didn't get punished. The whole example in the OP was an analogy to point out how the punishment (hell) and reward (heaven) aren't actually keyed to moral behaviors, but rather, to swearing the oath of fealty. Once you do that, you're good to go.
Now, your "true repentance" definition sounds like a No True Scotsman. As an ex-Christian, I was totally taught that death-bed conversions were totally admissible. I understand why you don't want it to be that way (just world hypothesis, and all), but I've never heard anyone actually define repentance in a way that wasn't either:
- Exactly what I'm describing, or
- Completely unattainable.
