RE: Believers, please differentiate these gods.
May 6, 2014 at 8:51 am
(This post was last modified: May 6, 2014 at 8:55 am by John V.)
(May 6, 2014 at 8:32 am)Esquilax Wrote: Let's not engage in sophistry, you came into the thread to give an opinion, you clearly want us to consider it.I'm noting that from our point of view we have god A. If you're contesting that, then give the reasoning. Otherwise, my point stands and is not sophistry.
Quote:I think the OP kind of poorly worded his description of B, give that the characteristic listed at the end is "this god exists." I've seen this type of reasoning set out before, back then it went "god B exists, but doesn't manifest in reality," which I think is self explanatory.I agree that OP is worded poorly and tried to help clarify, but my suggestions were rejected.
Quote:Could you do me a favor and stop treating us all like we're idiots? It's really clear to see that this is begging the question, and no amount of ignoring the first part of my post where I explain why is going to change that. This line of reasoning here is truly ridiculous, to the point where I don't want to insult your intelligence by assuming that you actually believe it.No, I say that "god does not manifest in reality in any way" wouldn't have accounts of his presence or actions. I noted previously that the parenthetical, "(this god doesn't exist)," is a non sequitur, as a deist god could exist. I'm not treating you like an idiot. The problem is that you're not really reading what I'm saying.
You say a god that doesn't exist wouldn't have accounts of his presence or actions,
Quote:and then you proceed to live in a universe where there are countless gods that have accounts of their presence or actions, and yet you don't believe they exist. Clearly, you're not so convinced of your own logic there, and why would you be? I wouldn't want to have to accept the existence of Odin and Vishnu and Allah and every last god that has ever been depicted, either.That A implies B doesn't mean that B implies A.
Quote:But don't engage in special pleading by asserting that your god exists because of those accounts, but not any of the others that have identical accounts.Others don't have identical accounts. I've been through that before.
(May 6, 2014 at 8:32 am)Godslayer Wrote:I have no idea how your statement follows from what you quoted.(May 6, 2014 at 7:40 am)alpha male Wrote: No, God B is, "this god manifests in reality but this god's actions do not manifest in reality."
Manifesting includes the ability to be detected. Some will say god is not detectable.
Quote:You can't speak for all of Christianity or Christians,Fair enough.
Quote:some of them actually believe in God B as Christians.I don't see how that's possible.
Quote:And once again, my point still stands that you can't tell the difference between God B (god who exists but it's actions can't be detected, can't be verified or don't manifest) and God C (god which doesn't exist).First, I don't recall challenging your point on B v. C, as I hold to A. Second, you're moving the goalposts, now adding "verified."