(April 29, 2014 at 10:56 pm)te1148 Wrote:(April 29, 2014 at 10:44 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Great, now we've got traction. This is actually a lot more than we usually get from resident theists, so you're earning points right out of the gate here.
Why depend on faith? If you have evidence, you don't need faith. You might have reasonable expectations based on the evidence, but since you've set up such a partition you don't even have those.
Fine. Do you ever test those presuppositions? For example, what do you know of your god's attributes and how do you know them?
Evidence is only a problem, usually handwaved away like this, to those who don't actually have any. If you or any theist actually had some copper-bottomed, compelling evidence for whatever god you're proposing, do you think you (or they) wouldn't come to places like this and parade it around like a show pony?
Again, fine. I'm more interested in what you can demonstrate to be true, as distinct from what you believe to be true.
I depend on faith, because I think faith is superior to reason. Reason rests in what my own mental faculties can comprehend. Also, I see a huge problem with what "facts". Facts are always interpreted and therefore subject to error. Also, I think my presuppositions are tested and proven true nearly every day. One of my presuppositions is that I am really sinful and don't deserve any good whatsoever. I believe that my sin has earned me eternal punishment in Hell, but by faith in Jesus, God gives me grace and shows me favor, instead of the punishment I deserve. I see that presupposition proven true every day.
I don't think there are any ways to prove 100% that God exists. God never seeks to prove that He exists. He just exists. Reason, intellect, and evidences are not enough.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
Thomas paine.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
