Religious "moderates" and atheists

[Mudhammam]

I still don't get what moral theory you're operating under which says that if I identify as a specific religion, I'm somehow responsible for the acts of others who do likewise. Religion is associated with bad acts. I get that. But so is capitalism, communism, liberalism, conservativism, etc. There's no group of people for whom there aren't bad seeds. I fail to see where, because there's a historical connection between my beliefs and those of a fundamentalist, like say enrico / Riketto, that because we both belong to the same umbrella group, I somehow inherit a moral responsibility for his behavior. Are you responsible for the behaviors of every corporation whose product you buy? I get that you are angered by what you feel the religious have done, but under what theory do I get tarred and feathered simply for belonging to the same group? If associating with a group that has contained bad actors is a crime, then you are all guilty as well.

I think you're conflating the doctrines of a religion with the individual adherents of a religion. Bad acts can certainly be associated with capitalists, liberals, or communists but that's different than those actions being fundamental to the doctrines of liberalism or communism themselves. My point is that many of the criticisms directed at religion, which are disavowed by the moderates, are intrinsic to the religion, part of the creeds, essential to the texts. If the overwhelming number of communists "misinterpreted" the original ideas to commit crimes against others, and one persists on being a communist, then it is THEIR job to stigmatize and discredit the majority who have gone so wayward. It's not the job of the capitalist to fight the misconceptions of communism. So when the moderates complain that atheists are attacking straw-men or a brand of faith that isn't true to the tenets of their religion, why aren't the moderates either 1) distancing themselves by a different label than the one that has been corrupted, or 2) forging alliances with the atheists to do what we are attempting to do, which is discredit the ideas we all agree are horrible. My suspicion is that the moderates only claim to be separatists from the mainstream faith but when one gets down to it, their actual beliefs differ very little.

Is one a moderate if he or she believes that the path to heaven is very narrow and can only be achieved by daily commitment to Jesus' Gospel, and that everyone else on earth is going to burn in hell for eternity? No. But that's what mainstream Christianity teaches. Is one a moderate if he or she believes children who doubt or question their beliefs are somehow faltering from the narrow path? No. But that's what the majority of Christians encountered in my life have believed. Where are all the moderates when the good Christian faces these external and internal pressures? It seems they only come out of the woodwork and speak up when the concerned atheist does first. Are there any moderate churches that encourage the believer to read dissenting material, to question the faith?

Certainly, some moderates exist. Kenneth Miller comes to mind as one, particularly on the topic of creationism. I don't know what his views are on the ideas I've mentioned...perhaps he's not so moderate after all. I don't know. My thesis is simply that the religious moderate is, like the atheist, on the fringe. I wonder why we don't both recognize this and do more to forge alliances in fighting religious fear-mongering and the suppression of intellectual faculties.