(May 26, 2014 at 9:33 am)Confused Ape Wrote:(May 26, 2014 at 3:34 am)Godschild Wrote: I'll try to clear things up, first of all I do not know if snakes were in the Garden or not. The Genesis account mentions serpent, not snake and no plural was ever given to the serpent.
In my earlier post I linked to a dictionary where it says that serpent is another word for snake.
Yes I know, I went to the original Hebrew and serpent in this passage and others is not a physical description but the description from the hissing sound snakes make which is linked to enchantment. I have a book that breaks down the Creation and Garden of Eden stories word by word, I've loaned it out several times and need to find where it's at, it would be very useful in these discussions.
(May 26, 2014 at 3:34 am)Godschild Wrote:
CA Wrote:Can't resist saying this but Lucifer must have had a hissy fit.
That's a good one and yes I bet he did.
CA Wrote:Who are Lucifer's descendants supposed to be, though? And why, if the serpent was really Lucifer, did the writers of Genesis deliberately confuse the account by not saying that he was an angel?
Lucifer has no descendants, angels can not procreate, I do not know the verse in the NT that tells us this, but I will find it if you wish.
Angels are not mentioned in scripture until the Abraham story, this is a couple thousand years after the temptation of Eve by the serpent. The book of Genesis was written by Moses as revealed to Him from God and possibly through stories preserved through time.
CA Wrote:After a couple of hours looking up different views of what the serpent's meant to be, it's obvious that it's whatever people want it to be. Christians who want Eve to have been tempted by Lucifer will find ways of interpreting the text to fit their views. I'm going to finish this post with an article from the Jewish Virtual Library - Paradise
I agree as far as people have made different meanings out of the story, I hope I can find my book and give a better account of the individual words and how they are used with each other.
CA Wrote:The Serpent
Quote:The text is at pains to point out the creatureliness of the serpent, describing it as one "of all the wild beasts that the Lord God had made" (3:1, 14); it is distinguished from the other beasts only by its shrewdness (3:1). Its insignificance is underlined in 3:9–19, where God interrogates Adam and Eve, and both respond, while the serpent is not questioned and does not respond. In view of the prominent role played by serpents in ancient Near Eastern religion and mythology this treatment of the serpent amounts to desecration and demythologization, quite possibly intentional. As a result, the source of evil is denied divine or even demonic status: evil is no independent principle in the cosmos, but stems from the behavior and attitudes of God's creatures.
From early times the serpent has been seen as a symbol, whose meaning is widely debated. Some have stressed the serpent's well-known phallic symbolism and fertility associations, taking the narrative to reflect an attitude toward human sexuality, fertility cults, and the like. Others see the serpent as representing man's own shrewdness. Since in ancient Near Eastern mythology the forces of chaos which oppose the forces of creation and cosmos are widely represented as serpents, many see the serpent here, too, as a personification of the forces of chaos. According to this view, disobeying God undermines the cosmic order. Alternatively, the serpent may represent ethical evil in general, a meaning that serpentine mythological motifs are given elsewhere in the Bible (e.g., Isa. 26:21–27:1).
The bolded bit makes sense to me because religious humans have often taken a negative attitude towards other religions' deities. A modern example is some Christians saying that the Horned God of Wicca is the Christian Devil.
I understand that the serpent or snake was used in various ways during ancient times. It's even used as a symbol of healing today. But this serpent was a different creature all together and must be looked at as different than all other references of the word serpent.
As far as what the Wicca deity looks like I couldn't care less, I try to focus on Christianity.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.