(June 10, 2014 at 9:30 am)ThePinsir Wrote: I think (this is my opinion!) that we can prove the non-existence of fictional characters. Say Superman. I have absolutely no reservations making the positive claim "Superman doesn't exist" and taking on a burden of proof for that statement. I can trace the origins of Superman comics, and so on.
Technically, you can't prove that statement (or at least, not in any practical sense). I could counter that Superman might be flying over the far side of Neptune right now, and you couldn't prove me wrong.
Now, granted, believing that Superman is doing that, let alone that he even exists is completely stupid. There's no basis for it, so it shouldn't be accepted without evidence. Still, it's not the same thing as proving he doesn't exist. Of course, the gnostic and agnostic a-Superman-ist would both live their lives as though Superman doesn't exist. This difference really is only seen during debates, and that's about it.
(June 10, 2014 at 9:30 am)ThePinsir Wrote: Secondly, it is not impossible to prove a negative. If something can logically not exist, you can prove it doesn't exist. For example, I can make the positive claim "There is no such thing as a triangle with 5 sides". Such a thing is logically impossible. Likewise, I think I can make the claim "There is no such thing as a perfect, loving, omniscient deity who would allow people to be tortured forever and ever".
Well, I'd say that you can set up the theoretical positive in a way that is very impractical to disprove. My Superman-on-the-other-side-of-Neptune example from above could theoretically be disproven, but not easily. This is why apologetics get increasingly vague in the face of skepticism.
Hell, I think some negatives are impossible to disprove. The only way to "disprove" the current Christian notion of God is to literally die and not see God or either of the afterlives we've been promised. Of course, we can't really report our findings back to the rest of the world.
(June 10, 2014 at 9:38 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Certainly if we're specific about which god. Yahweh has too many internal contradictions to exist. The book that claims his existence is too discredited. I am a gnostic atheist with regards to Yahweh as described in the Bible.
Yeah, the Bible makes many testable claims that have been proven false. Now, a Christian can start to morph their god into something sufficiently different and nonfalsifiable to make it impossible to disprove, but they also have to move away from the Bible to do so.
Bonus points for those who claim their new version of God is still totally Biblical. At least my wife, who believes in a very watered-down version of God admits that he's only based on the Bible.
(June 10, 2014 at 9:38 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: So the claim "there is no god" is simply a reaction to living in a society saturated by beliefs in Jesus and Yahweh, the same as if we lived in a society that believed in unicorns and that our morality comes from unicorns and if you don't believe in unicorns you're a bad person and...
Exactly.
