RE: Let's Just Say...
June 12, 2014 at 11:30 pm
(This post was last modified: June 12, 2014 at 11:51 pm by Revelation777.)
(June 12, 2014 at 8:00 am)Cato Wrote:(June 11, 2014 at 9:59 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Unfortunately, for you at least, the plan of salvation is through His Son and none other.
Rev, this is just another astounding example of the ability of many Christians to blindly accept the unreasonable. The idea of vicarious atonement is antithetical to any reasonable concept of justice. If we primates can figure this out it would seem that a being capable of creating the cosmos could also. This is another example of why your story is myth and a reason why the God of the Bible most certainly does not exist.
You are wrong.
(June 12, 2014 at 10:02 am)Stimbo Wrote:(June 11, 2014 at 10:42 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Just requesting civility and respect.
At the same time as telling everyone that they deserve to be tortured and burned forever if they don't start thinking the same way as you. Civility and respect, my arse.
When did I say that? Am I your judge?
(June 12, 2014 at 1:15 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:(June 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: Let's Just Say that there is a God and He is the one described in the Bible. As much as you disagree or believe in the contrary, humor me and let's say that this is the case. If that be so and there is a hope for eternal life by placing your faith in Christ, would you accept that and receive Him? Or, would you defiantly reject this offer?
So Rev if you were presented with undeniable proof of the non-existence of god would you stop being a theist?
Or better still there was proof that a god exists and its Odin would you enter battle and hope for Valhalla?
These sort of questions are a waste of time.
Its along the line of asking "If my dick was ten foot long would it be a big dick?"
Well yes, but it isn't, is the answer.
I would not follow Odin.
(June 12, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:(June 11, 2014 at 3:01 am)max-greece Wrote: Its a depressing thought.
I'd accept he existed but he doesn't seem worthy of worship. After all, 30% of all the angels in heaven can't be wrong.....
That's an excellent point. Supposedly, they absolutely know he's real. Supposedly, they're in heavenly bliss. Supposedly, they are well aware of the consequences of rebellion, and that their opponent is omnipotent and they can't possibly win. Yet they find Yahweh so intolerable they rebel anyway.
But when heaven is full of human souls, everything will run smoothly.....
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: A couple things to consider:
- God created, you nor I didn't, He created the rules, He graciously allows us to enjoy existence and His creation
If you made a robot capable of suffering, would that entitle you to torture it and still be considered good?
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - Who are we to judge Him? As smart as we think we are for any way can possible compare His vast understand vs. ours is absurd.
We have at least as many qualifications to judge the biblical description of God to be evil as you have to judge it as good.
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - Why do you blame God when He created man with a free will to chose his own fate and the results of his own decision.
We don't blame God. God is most likely a completely fictional character. We just point out the inconsistencies in your story about him.
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: And don't say well if God knew ahead of time yadda yadda yadda.
Because that would completely destroy your argument, so we better not say it!
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: No one can possibly rationalize everything nor understand fully God's Will.
Yet you lot keep telling us you know what God wants and thinks. It's not God we don't believe. God isn't making any claims. It's YOU we don't believe. You are not God, and if there is a God, you don't speak for it.
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: - If God gave you a chance to be forgiven that doesn't cost you anything other than to accept it, wouldn't it be silly to refuse such a gift.
If a mugger held a gun to my head and offered not to shoot me if I begged his forgiveness, it would be pragmatic to accept his offer, yes. If you tell me on the internet that someone is going to shoot me in the head if I don't beg some guy named Sam's forgiveness, it would be the height of gullibillity to act on that. Do you understand which of those two scenarios your 'offer' most resembles?
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: The only part of the universe to be in apart from God is the very place you blame God that He will send you to.
So, you believe God is not omnipresent.
(June 11, 2014 at 7:55 pm)Revelation777 Wrote: However, you are choosing it by your pride and stubbornness.
We are choosing not to believe in claims that lack evidence and have only fallacies for support. 'Believe me or else' is one of the more ugly fallacies.
How do I respond to all these without making this post a mile long?
(June 12, 2014 at 11:30 pm)Revelation777 Wrote:(June 12, 2014 at 8:00 am)Cato Wrote: Rev, this is just another astounding example of the ability of many Christians to blindly accept the unreasonable. The idea of vicarious atonement is antithetical to any reasonable concept of justice. If we primates can figure this out it would seem that a being capable of creating the cosmos could also. This is another example of why your story is myth and a reason why the God of the Bible most certainly does not exist.
You are wrong.
(June 12, 2014 at 10:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: At the same time as telling everyone that they deserve to be tortured and burned forever if they don't start thinking the same way as you. Civility and respect, my arse.
When did I say that? Am I your judge?
(June 12, 2014 at 1:15 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote: So Rev if you were presented with undeniable proof of the non-existence of god would you stop being a theist?
Or better still there was proof that a god exists and its Odin would you enter battle and hope for Valhalla?
These sort of questions are a waste of time.
Its along the line of asking "If my dick was ten foot long would it be a big dick?"
Well yes, but it isn't, is the answer.
I would not follow Odin.
(June 12, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: That's an excellent point. Supposedly, they absolutely know he's real. Supposedly, they're in heavenly bliss. Supposedly, they are well aware of the consequences of rebellion, and that their opponent is omnipotent and they can't possibly win. Yet they find Yahweh so intolerable they rebel anyway.
But when heaven is full of human souls, everything will run smoothly.....
If you made a robot capable of suffering, would that entitle you to torture it and still be considered good?
We have at least as many qualifications to judge the biblical description of God to be evil as you have to judge it as good.
We don't blame God. God is most likely a completely fictional character. We just point out the inconsistencies in your story about him.
Because that would completely destroy your argument, so we better not say it!
Yet you lot keep telling us you know what God wants and thinks. It's not God we don't believe. God isn't making any claims. It's YOU we don't believe. You are not God, and if there is a God, you don't speak for it.
If a mugger held a gun to my head and offered not to shoot me if I begged his forgiveness, it would be pragmatic to accept his offer, yes. If you tell me on the internet that someone is going to shoot me in the head if I don't beg some guy named Sam's forgiveness, it would be the height of gullibillity to act on that. Do you understand which of those two scenarios your 'offer' most resembles?
So, you believe God is not omnipresent.
We are choosing not to believe in claims that lack evidence and have only fallacies for support. 'Believe me or else' is one of the more ugly fallacies.
How do I respond to all these without making this post a mile long?
You'll got God pegged wrong. He is loving and merciful. Patient and longsuffering. Man is evil.
