(June 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote:If that were true you would have to 'take my word for it' that God does exist.(June 13, 2014 at 4:55 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: In order to support your claim that the Bible is 'factually wrong' you take the position that: you are a man, you know there isn't a God, the Bible says all men know there is a God, therefore the Bible is factually inaccurate. The only proof you have is your word/authority.Which is the only proof required...
(June 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: as it is a statement of what he does or does not believe, does or does not know. It is not declaration of the factual accuracy of the statement (that there is no god) but the factual accuracy of the statement that "all men know there is a god" He does not, in fact he knows the precise opposition to the claim.
Maybe I'm missing something but this paragraph is self-contradictive. Please clarify. The claimer would have to know the factually accuracy of his statement in order to know the factual accuracy of the claim.
(June 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: The claim as constructed is unfortunately absolute -all men- It's a done deal. I would repeat his claim as my own. So now there are two men...at least, in a world where "all men know there is a god"....and that's troubling for the claim, I'd say.An appeal to popularity doesn't solve the proof issue.
(June 13, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No more so than you could prove that you believed in god. Tread lightly, the floor of solipsism is thin(or maybe not).I agree.
(June 13, 2014 at 6:08 pm)Cato Wrote:
The Bible teaches scripture has authority over the church (2 Timothy 3:16)
Catholicism teaches the Church has authority over Scriptures. The manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the church... the Pope and to the bishops. (100,119)
The Bible teaches man is justified once by faith because justification provides a permanent right standing before God and results in glorification (Romans 8:30)
Catholicism teaches man is to be justified repeatedly by sacraments and works because he loses the grace of justification each time a mortal sin is committed. The sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification (1446).
The Bible teaches man is saved by God's unmerited grace (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Catholicism teaches man is saved by meriting the graces needed for salvation. We can merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for the attainment of eternal life (2010)
The Bible teaches man is saved for all eternity (Ephesians 1:13-14)
Catholicism teaches man is saved only until the next mortal sin is committed. Those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell (1035)
(numbers in parenthesis are page number references to the Catechism of the Catholic Church 1994)
Catholicism condemns with over 100 anathemas those who believe the Bible instead of the Canons of the Council of Trent. These condemnations are still in effect today.
It will remain my official position that until the Catholic church not only openly rejects but repents of the canons of the council of trent, all teachings found within their catechism contrary to scripture, and all traditions of men that contradict scriptural teaching, they will remain apostate, a non-Christian organization. These are not my accusations, but rather their own teachings condemn them.
(June 13, 2014 at 6:53 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
I understand your point. Hopefully my initial post on this subject wasn't lost in that I agree we have a stalemate on this one, with no where to go from here so to speak.
(June 15, 2014 at 10:18 am)Ksa Wrote: My apologies, I forgot that Jesus died for your sins on the cross, so whatever sins you do, it's paid for. I was talking about someone who is serious in following the teachings of Jesus. I guess you're right, if you accept the word, you're saved, but, there's some verses in the Qur'an you will find very troubling with respect to your chances to go to heaven by only accepting, and not "graduating".Forgiven. You make an important distinction on why the Qur'an cannot be a revelation from the same God as the Bible. One teaches salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, the other teaches Christ did not die on the cross (so there is no forgiveness of sins), and a man must merit salvation. And sadly the only 'guarantee' Muslims have for salvation is death in the act of Jihad.
If it could be proven beyond doubt that God exists...
and that He is the one spoken of in the Bible...
would you repent of your sins and place your faith in Jesus Christ?
