Evidence God Exists: Part II

[Thor]

I see that Tav did a great job of replying to this. Thanks, Tav!

Now I'll add my two cents...

I love how you jump to previously prepared arguments and preconceived notions of what I believe, instead of actually having the humility to ask me what I believe in. You absolutely would be the kind of person to generalize and assume I think it's all a part of 'God's plan.'

I was just making a general comment about "God's plan" because many people believe in this nonsense. I wasn't assuming you're one of them.

For the record, I expect a human man living and interacting in human ways with the human world to interfere and attempt to save another human being, yes.

So you DON'T expect an all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful deity to interfere and attempt to save the life of one of his creations?

You have been given a life worth living, and so has everyone else. Use it. Learn from it. Don't just sit back and try and blame someone else for your own misfortunes or the misfortunes of others.

I DON'T! Where did I say that I blame someone for the misfortune of others?

God explains Himself quite clearly to those who don't stuff their ears full of bullshit and ignroe Him.

Complete twaddle. This deity has never made himself known to me. Where has he "explained himself"?

Rationalize, if I am correct, means the process of inventing or searching for rational explanations for things. Nip me in the bud if I'm wrong, but that is still seeking answers at the very least.

See Tav's response to this.

I've met Him,

Bullshit.

I've Seen Him,

Bullshit.

I've spoken with Him.

Did he speak back?

Your inability to comprehend that there are different ways of communicating, seeing, and meeting someone other than those taught to you by society is not my problem.

Really? And what exactly are these "different ways of communicating, seeing and meeting"? Semaphore? Smoke signals? Morse code? Or could I claim that I have seen, communicated with and met Tinkerbell by using your "different ways"?

*sigh*
Did I, or did I not, say 'bare with me'? What I meant by that was, for the sake of discussion, presume that a soul exists. Presume that humans do, in factm have souls. I guess that was asking to much, because if we really wanted to delve into souls theologically, you would walk away laughing yoru ass off at a concept you don't understand in the slightest.

Why should I even give the slightest consideration to a notion that is fantastical and has no evidence to support it?

Where did 'invisible' come from?

So, your deity is NOT invisible? He can't walk among us undetected if he so desires?

Is the earth not also one of 'God's children'? Is the universe itself not one of 'God's children'? So, if God believes in free will, and presume pleace that He does, then He isn't going to interfere with one of His children's work, say, the course of nature striking someone with cancer.

So you don't believe that your deity EVER interferes with our lives?

A good parent, or in this case, a perfect parent knows what is best for his or her child. Therefore, the parent is going to make decisions based on that understanding of what is best for the child. Do you trust your parents? Do you believe they love you and are looking out for you as best they can? If you don't, then things here begin to make sense. If you do, then ask yourself what those same parents would do if they were all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful creators of the universe. Go on. I know you have a brain and a heart, so use both of them.

If my parents were all-knowing, all-loving and all-powerful I am quite certain that they would cure me if I contracted a fatal disease. I'll bet they would even cure ANY child who contracted a fatal disease.

Your child whines and begs to ride her bicycle without training wheels. No matter how much you resist, she presses and presses the issue, when you know that she is not ready for that kind of thing. You advise her as such, and she still refuses to listen.

So you relent, and another concerned parent asks you "Why would you do that? You know she can't do it, and she'll probably get hurt."

I know my response would then be "Well, then she'll learn."

How does this even COMPARE to a child getting cancer? What the hell does a child "learn" if they die? And you have suggested that maybe the lesson is for the parents? How do you think a parent would feel if they found out some deity allowed their child to suffer and die so that they could learn some sort of "lesson"? Personally, I'd be absolutely outraged!

Didn't expect you to understand.

I don't see what there IS to understand.

See above, about training wheels, about Mother Nature, and about free will. End.

Yeah, it makes no sense.

The thing is, you are talking about Earth, and you don't even realize it.

No, I'm NOT talking about the Earth. The planet has nothing to do with a child getting cancer. Or smallpox. Or starving to death.

You're so inapable of finding anyone to blame, you have to pin it on God,

Where are you coming from with this crap? I don't blame "God" for anything! For the same reason I don't blame Santa Claus when I don't get exactly what I want for Christmas.

then in some childish act of "F U AND YOUR PARENTAL AUTHORITY" bullshit, you turn around and deny that God even exists.

So I'm just being rebellious? It couldn't possibly be that I've examined the "evidence" for the existence of a deity and found it severely lacking?

Then you have no one left to blame, so you end up running around in a little circle trying to make it seem like Nature is some cool, callous bitch.

"Nature" is harsh and unforgiving. Just ask anyone who spent some time lost in the wilderness for a few days. Of course, some people you CAN'T ask because they died on a mountain or in the jungle.

Because you are a human being.

So I'm held to a higher standard than your deity? Yeah, that makes sense...

Because He is a God, and He is a very good parent who gave every living and non-living thing in the universe a place to play around in.

First of all, how can something that is non-living "play around"? Do rocks and icebergs "play around"? And, like I said, you give your deity a pass. He can ignore all kinds of human suffering and your rationalization is that it's okay with you because "He's God". Pretty lame excuse if you ask me.

I said we can't understand it if we aren't willing to learn about it. You, clearly, are not willing to learn.

Well, whatever lesson there is to be "learned" from the suffering and death of children, I'd rather not learn it. I'd rather miss out on the lesson and have the children cured and happy.

And then faith, belief, trust and love would be down the drain.

This makes zero sense. If this deity took the time to explain his actions (or non-actions) people would lose their "faith, belief, trust and love"? How do you figure that?

When you tell someone you love them, do you do it just to remidn them that you love them and you don't want them to leave, or do you do it simply because you love them? I hope for the latter, or what you are experiencing is a very mis-construed form of love.

What does this have to do with anything?

And, again, perhaps you're simply looking in the wrong places for yours explanations and understandings. You look to science to for answers to human problems,

Well, since science has allowed us to double our life expectancy in the last century, eradicated many killer diseases, provided clean water, increased food production, among many other marvelous things... Yes. I look to science. Where has religion done anything similar?

you look to Atheism for answers to problems of the universe and moral guidance.

No, I don't. Atheism has no tenets or doctrine. What answers do you think atheism provides for anything? What it does do is tell me that I'm wasting my time if I pray to a deity for a cure to a medical condition. Therefore, I go to a doctor when I'm not feeling well. Also, atheism does not give me moral guidance. That would be my own conception of right and wrong.

but if you would take the time to open yourself, learn, grow and become an ever-changing person, you might discover a thing or two that you never thought possible.

I did all these things and I did discover things I never thought possible. After I abandoned all belief in deities.