RE: Believers!! Don't mislead people
June 18, 2014 at 11:26 am
(This post was last modified: June 18, 2014 at 1:13 pm by Muslim Atheism.)
See? I have no case to answer for the following issue. Simple. 
Well, I don't believe in God, Allah is not God. .
and it is about facts from the Quran. . . the doctrine itself
How can you speak about the "doctrine" without referring to the main source of that "doctrine"? ie. the Quran, the Constitution (refer here)
Further, the Quran is consistent without any inconsistency and reasonably proven not to be the word of a man
in facts, it is almost impossible to believe a man who live 1400 years ago did this
and we cannot hope to get "direct evidence", because it will defeat the main purpose of creation, the test
but there is an abundance of "circumstantial and corroborative evidence" relating to "supernatural higher intelligence" and "law of causation"
where no one can disapprove these facts. . one cannot be a scientist or rational person if they reject the "law of cause and effect"
this "circumstantial and corroborative evidence" is better and more weight than "direct evidence" pertaining to the issue of creations
and Allah does not require one to believe in Allah to be a Muslim.
This is the doctrine of Islam from the Quran, and I believe the issue you raise relating to who is Allah is irrelevant.
Here is my proof.
Contention: Muslim don’t have to believe in Allah, Paradise, Angels, and all the allegorical issue that need further interpretation
Read together with verses 3.7 and 5.101.
This is the minimum requirement and it is the “interpretation provision” of a Muslim and a Believer.
Firstly
When Allah says “You have not believed”
It means, “You have not believed”
It does not means, “You have believed”
Simple logic, everyone can understand this statement.
Someone may argue that they have believed, but it is not according to Allah.
There are specific provisions to define the Believers, and it is not for human beings to simply claim that they are Believers.
Therefore it doesn’t matter if they believe or did not believe.
What matter is they obey the rules in the Quran, and what is related to the “practical aspect of life”.
Secondly
When Allah says “You have not believed”
and then, ‘We have submitted’
It means, there is a distinction between “Believers” and “Muslim”
It means, there is a distinction between “faith” and “obedience”
These two do not mean the same, and human being only be accountable for “obedience”, not “faith”
Faith is beyond human control, but obedience is within human control.
“Faith” is within the Allah’s jurisdiction, and “obedience” is within human’s jurisdiction.
There is no blame for what is beyond human control.
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. (2.286)
Thirdly
When Allah says “And if you obey Allah and His Messenger.
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything”
and then “Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”
It means, one can enter Paradise even if he does not believe in Allah at all.
It can be wrong, but Allah said “Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”
Allah will forgive whatever mistakes that is related or may arise from “lack of faith”
Muslim only concern with their “practical aspect of life”
Accordingly, a Muslim is not necessarily the so called Muslim as we know today, the system of Islam is to simplify life so that the society can unite, not to complicated life and raising all issues and creating more and more division in the society. These people are sectarians, and "sectarianism is a religion". They are "religious people", whatever name they attached themselves to.
(June 18, 2014 at 11:18 am)Muslim Atheism Wrote: Issue:
Why do you believe the Quran is NOT the Word of Allah?
Counterargument (how to counter Allah’s argument):
Produce one like the Quran, without any inconsistency and amendment
and corroborating with history, science, nature, universe, future, mathematical numerology etc. . .
ELSE. . . consider the words of Allah! [END IF]
(June 18, 2014 at 11:25 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Who is Allah? I thought you discounted God claims?
Well, I don't believe in God, Allah is not God. .
and it is about facts from the Quran. . . the doctrine itself
How can you speak about the "doctrine" without referring to the main source of that "doctrine"? ie. the Quran, the Constitution (refer here)
Further, the Quran is consistent without any inconsistency and reasonably proven not to be the word of a man
in facts, it is almost impossible to believe a man who live 1400 years ago did this
and we cannot hope to get "direct evidence", because it will defeat the main purpose of creation, the test
but there is an abundance of "circumstantial and corroborative evidence" relating to "supernatural higher intelligence" and "law of causation"
where no one can disapprove these facts. . one cannot be a scientist or rational person if they reject the "law of cause and effect"
this "circumstantial and corroborative evidence" is better and more weight than "direct evidence" pertaining to the issue of creations
and Allah does not require one to believe in Allah to be a Muslim.
This is the doctrine of Islam from the Quran, and I believe the issue you raise relating to who is Allah is irrelevant.
Here is my proof.
Contention: Muslim don’t have to believe in Allah, Paradise, Angels, and all the allegorical issue that need further interpretation
Read together with verses 3.7 and 5.101.
This is the minimum requirement and it is the “interpretation provision” of a Muslim and a Believer.
Quote:The bedouins say, “We have believed.” (about faith, believers)
Say, “You have not believed; (about faith, believers)
but say, ‘We have submitted,’ (about obedience, muslim)
for faith has not yet entered your hearts. (faith beyond human control, not our fault)
And if you obey Allah and His Messenger (about obedience, muslim)
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything. (ie. including paradise etc)
Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” (any mistakes relating to faith)
49.14-15
Firstly
When Allah says “You have not believed”
It means, “You have not believed”
It does not means, “You have believed”
Simple logic, everyone can understand this statement.
Someone may argue that they have believed, but it is not according to Allah.
There are specific provisions to define the Believers, and it is not for human beings to simply claim that they are Believers.
Therefore it doesn’t matter if they believe or did not believe.
What matter is they obey the rules in the Quran, and what is related to the “practical aspect of life”.
Secondly
When Allah says “You have not believed”
and then, ‘We have submitted’
It means, there is a distinction between “Believers” and “Muslim”
It means, there is a distinction between “faith” and “obedience”
These two do not mean the same, and human being only be accountable for “obedience”, not “faith”
Faith is beyond human control, but obedience is within human control.
“Faith” is within the Allah’s jurisdiction, and “obedience” is within human’s jurisdiction.
There is no blame for what is beyond human control.
Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. (2.286)
Thirdly
When Allah says “And if you obey Allah and His Messenger.
He will not deprive you from your deeds of anything”
and then “Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”
It means, one can enter Paradise even if he does not believe in Allah at all.
It can be wrong, but Allah said “Allah is Forgiving and Merciful”
Allah will forgive whatever mistakes that is related or may arise from “lack of faith”
Muslim only concern with their “practical aspect of life”
Accordingly, a Muslim is not necessarily the so called Muslim as we know today, the system of Islam is to simplify life so that the society can unite, not to complicated life and raising all issues and creating more and more division in the society. These people are sectarians, and "sectarianism is a religion". They are "religious people", whatever name they attached themselves to.
