Evidence God Exists: Part II

[Watson]

I love how you jump to previously prepared arguments and preconceived notions of what I believe, instead of actually having the humility to ask me what I believe in. You absolutely would be the kind of person to generalize and assume I think it's all a part of 'God's plan.'

For the record, I expect a human man living and interacting in human ways with the human world to interfere and attempt to save another human being, yes. You have been given a life worth living, and so has everyone else. Use it. Learn from it. Don't just sit back and try and blame someone else for your own misfortunes or the misfortunes of others.

Does God intervene or not?

Yes, He does.

God explains Himself quite clearly to those who don't stuff their ears full of bullshit and ignroe Him.

Perhaps you can translate, I'll be sure to clean my ears.

That's what I've been attempting to do with my posts since I showed up here, haha. You're just not understanding.

Rationalize, if I am correct, means the process of inventing or searching for rational explanations for things. Nip me in the bud if I'm wrong, but that is still seeking answers at the very least.

Rationalize - 1 : to bring into accord with reason or cause something to seem reasonable: as a : to substitute a natural for a supernatural explanation of <rationalize a myth> b : to attribute (one's actions) to rational and creditable motives without analysis of true and especially unconscious motives <rationalized his dislike of his brother> ; broadly : to create an excuse or more attractive explanation for <rationalize the problem>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rationalize

Point taken!

I've met Him, I've Seen Him, I've spoken with Him. Your inability to comprehend that there are different ways of communicating, seeing, and meeting someone other than those taught to you by society is not my problem.

You wanna be a bit more specific?

Sure.

How did you meet him? What did he look like? What did he say to you?

I 'met' Him one night during a personal experience of mine, when I stumbled upon a strength inside myself I did not know I had. It was not until later that I recognized this strength as God.

He looked like everything, and He said a lot of things.

How do you understand your experience to be genuine?

I trust and have faith in my own senses, and in my own feelings of love.

Did I, or did I not, say 'bare with me'? What I meant by that was, for the sake of discussion, presume that a soul exists. Presume that humans do, in factm have souls. I guess that was asking to much, because if we really wanted to delve into souls theologically, you would walk away laughing yoru ass off at a concept you don't understand in the slightest.

You used a hypothetical concept as evidence for another hypothetical concept.

Example:

Suppose underpants gnomes exist (bare with me). How else do you suppose your old underwear goes missing if not for the magical forest to make a profit?

That's why, above, I said "I guess that was asking too much", since I recognized there is no way for me to bring souls into it without getting very lengthy and without confusing you guys to an extent that would do no good. Especially since you guys seem to hate my guts for even trying. I've definitely got a better chance of talking these things over with people I'm close to.

Is the earth not also one of 'God's children'? Is the universe itself not one of 'God's children'? So, if God believes in free will, and presume pleace that He does, then He isn't going to interfere with one of His children's work, say, the course of nature striking someone with cancer.

So God does not interfere. Got it.

God is a part of all. So where one person trusts God, God is involved. Where one shuns His influence, advice, and strength, He is not.

A good parent, or in this case, a perfect parent knows what is best for his or her child. Therefore, the parent is going to make decisions based on that understanding of what is best for the child.

Funny thing is, there are no perfect parents, so we don't know how they would react. We have no analog. The only thing we can go on is our experience with imperfect parents.

Except for, there are those who have experience with a perfect parent, and that parent is God.

Do you trust your parents? Do you believe they love you and are looking out for you as best they can? If you don't, then things here begin to make sense.

This is irrelevant.

No, it isn't. If you trust your parents and believe that they are looking out for you as best as they can, you are much more inclined to listen to their teachings and what they have to say than if you demonize them in your head.

If you do, then ask yourself what those same parents would do if they were all-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful creators of the universe. Go on. I know you have a brain and a heart, so use both of them.

What about if those same parents had laser vision and could travel back through time to fight prehistoric monsters? This is irrelevant, as there exist no such parents in the world, to my knowledge. Don't use an appeal to emotion - it doesn't strengthen the argument.

Again, such a parent does exist, to those willing to listen; God.

And it's not for you to walk up to them and ask that for this exact reason, dumbass! It's for them to ask or not ask of themselves, and if it hurts them and they make it through, it's all for the better. It's their decision whether they ask themselves the hard questions or not. And they will be the benefactor of having done such a thing, too.

So outliving your child can potentially be a rewarding experience.

Wow.

No, it's probably going to be pretty shitty, but accepting the reality of it can potentially be rewarding, yes. "Every cloud has a silver lining..." ?

Your child whines and begs to ride her bicycle without training wheels. No matter how much you resist, she presses and presses the issue, when you know that she is not ready for that kind of thing. You advise her as such, and she still refuses to listen.

So you relent, and another concerned parent asks you "Why would you do that? You know she can't do it, and she'll probably get hurt."

I know my response would then be "Well, then she'll learn."

Are you fucking serious?!

You're comparing a child dying of cancer to a whiny brat who wants to ride a fucking bike? Tell me, what did the child learn from getting cancer? What did the parents learn?

I don't know, I am not the child and I am not the parents. It is all completely personal and specific to the person it happens to.

Why doesn't this shit happen to people who think like you? Cancer is a gift from God and teaches important life lessons. Don't bother with treatments in that case.

No, you are still not getting it at all. I did not say cancer is a gift from God, and not to bother with treatments. Stop misrepresenting my arguments because if you do, you're going to come up with irrelevant counter-points and we will go nowhere.

Life is a gift from God, perception of that life is exactly what you make of it. Nature does things we don't always quite understand, but that we must deal with it. You can accept the reality of that, or whine about it like a bitch. Your choice.

But you give your deity a pass.

Because He is a God, and He is a very good parent who gave every living and non-living thing in the universe a place to play around in.

By what are you judging this good parenting? If I gave a kid a house to play in and left, would that be a fucking good parent?

Maybe you'll understand if I put it this way; God is the parent watching over the child as they play around in the house, and He does not leave. He offers advice and guidance and counsel, but does not force the child to do anything which might impede on their free will.

And then faith, belief, trust and love would be down the drain. When you tell someone you love them, do you do it just to remidn them that you love them and you don't want them to leave, or do you do it simply because you love them? I hope for the latter, or what you are experiencing is a very mis-construed form of love.

This has nothing to do with anything. No one said anything about love, stop trying to obfuscate the point any further.

I said something about love, because it has everything to with everything.

And, again, perhaps you're simply looking in the wrong places for yours explanations and understandings. You look to science to for answers to human problems,

Problems such as what, disease? famine?

By human problems, I mean emotional and mental issues, questions we deal with that relate to the 'Why?', not the 'How?'

you look to Atheism for answers to problems of the universe and moral guidance.

Yes, because atheism has a lot to say on morals and universal dilemmas.


Get a fucking clue.

You'd be surprised.

but if you would take the time to open yourself, learn, grow and become an ever-changing person, you might discover a thing or two that you never thought possible.

Now where does this necessarily require a belief in God or religion?

It simply requires belief. And once one opens oneself to belief, a lot of things become very clear, very fast.

I have read very little of the Bible, but I am aware of it's contents and meaning through study of this life I am living.

How shocking. A christian that hasn't read the Bible.

That's right, I haven't read the Bible. However, I understand its teachings and the contents within, based on my own observations about morality and the world.

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Call bullshit all you like, I'm not even sure what "True Atheist" means.

I stated “bullshit” because of “Your” quote on saying you were an Atheist before you became a Christian. Your statement; During my change from Atheism to Christianity,
As far as “True Atheist”, I only put the first part in to escalate the word, no more, no less.

Well, I say I don't know what "True Atheist" means because, n my belief, I have yet to truly meet a "True Atheist", and I never will. I mean no disrespect by it, I just don't believe in "True" Atheism.

I am an Agnostic Christian, which means I believe in the teachings, I believe in the ideas and principles of the Christian religion, but I do not know them or claim them to be true.

Furthermore, my belief in God is quite seperate from my Christianity, and based on my own personal experience, coupled with my observations of the world around me. I have read very little of the Bible, but I am aware of it's contents and meaning through study of this life I am living.

Can you really be called a “Christian”? Personal Understandings based on, personal opinions, is one thing, but not a “Christian”, unless you are preparing to add on another branch to the 38,000 other sects of Christianity?

I don't plan on adding a sect of any kind, this is simply my personal experience with Christianity as I understand it. My interpretation of Christianity is based on my observations of God, rather than the other way around.

Also, you state many times over in reference to a “God” you label “IT” as a “HE”….. Do you really believe this deity is a “He”?

Technically, no I do not. However, when one has faith in God, and acquires the level of personal affection I or any other Christian may have for God, it becomes hard not to put some level of familial title to the being known to us as 'God.'

You're right, I never was an Atheist to begin with.

Now it’s my turn to say, “Thank you”…..

And my turn to say 'Your welcome'

I know you are not like the “Majority”, but I do question your ways of thinking in concerns with your personal faith/belief/Understandings and label it as “Christianity”….Regardless of the first word before it (Agnostic)…

Well, if it helps; I choose Christianity because I find it the most broad in understanding and the best at describing the phenomenon we call 'life', the being we call 'God.' I also find that certain other religions do this very well, too, but none quite so precisely as Christianity. That is my take on it; a Muslim or a Buddhist may have a different take, just as you and the other Atheists on this site have differents take completely.

In all honesty, I believe the majority of congregations across the U.S. and so on, are “Agnostic” in terms of questions they have about the “What Ifs”. However, they usually will never come out and say it publicly.

I believe they are Christian, but are not recognized as such because of the level of misrepresentation coming from Fundamentalists and other nutjobs. Christianity has more depth to it than some would like to think, and takes a lot of study for one to undertsand it's true, underlying meaning.

If you want to believe in a "Personal god", there is nothing I can say, other than, best of luck, but I can only hope your "Agnostic" side comes more through with any personal questions, through circumstances that arise.

Thank you for your well wishes, haha. I do believe in a personal God; I believe that all major and minor religions out there are simply an attempt at describing that God in the best way they know how. Some have it better than others, and I only add the 'Agnostic' label to my Christianity because I merely believe in Jesus Christ and his teachings; I have no way of absolutely knowing for certain if He ever walk this earth.

Long post is long, jeez...I'm getting into this!