RE: Once Again.... If You Don't Like France...
July 4, 2014 at 6:34 am
(This post was last modified: July 4, 2014 at 6:41 am by ManMachine.)
There does seem to be a lot of old bollocks (as we say in Britain) being written in this discussion. Let's see if we can iron a few things out.
1. The original complaint was brought by a French national who resides in France, to my knowledge there are no deserts in France, let alone inhabited ones.
2. Islam is not a race, it's a religion
3. The law in question refers neither to Islam nor to veils, it prohibits the wearing of anything that hides the face, one assumes this will include other articles such as Halloween masks, face-paint, scarves, balaclavas, etc. (It will be interesting watching the French implement this one).
4. Not all Muslims are from the Middle East, in fact, the vast majority are not, and come from countries such as Croatia, Indonesia, India, Russia, China, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Malaysia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Ukraine and many others. Yes, Islam originated in the Middle East and it's main Holy city is in the Middle East but the same is true of Judaism and Christianity, where's the comments about their 'desert shitholes'?
5. On whether or not the niqab, hijab and/or burqa, etc. are obligations under Islamic law, Islamic scholars are undecided on this. Some believe it is an obligation, some believe it is not and it is up to the individual. There is no consensus from within the Islamic world, so any debate on the matter is moot.
6. Many Middle Eastern countries base their laws and social conduct on Islamic doctrine, and that seems to have been commented upon. Western laws and social conduct are based upon Christian doctrine. There are many atheists here levering their opinions of Islam against subsumed Christian principles, and they don't know they are doing it. It does not bode well for atheism that people cannot recognise the relative religious positions they are arguing from.
MM
1. The original complaint was brought by a French national who resides in France, to my knowledge there are no deserts in France, let alone inhabited ones.
2. Islam is not a race, it's a religion
3. The law in question refers neither to Islam nor to veils, it prohibits the wearing of anything that hides the face, one assumes this will include other articles such as Halloween masks, face-paint, scarves, balaclavas, etc. (It will be interesting watching the French implement this one).
4. Not all Muslims are from the Middle East, in fact, the vast majority are not, and come from countries such as Croatia, Indonesia, India, Russia, China, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Malaysia, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Ukraine and many others. Yes, Islam originated in the Middle East and it's main Holy city is in the Middle East but the same is true of Judaism and Christianity, where's the comments about their 'desert shitholes'?
5. On whether or not the niqab, hijab and/or burqa, etc. are obligations under Islamic law, Islamic scholars are undecided on this. Some believe it is an obligation, some believe it is not and it is up to the individual. There is no consensus from within the Islamic world, so any debate on the matter is moot.
6. Many Middle Eastern countries base their laws and social conduct on Islamic doctrine, and that seems to have been commented upon. Western laws and social conduct are based upon Christian doctrine. There are many atheists here levering their opinions of Islam against subsumed Christian principles, and they don't know they are doing it. It does not bode well for atheism that people cannot recognise the relative religious positions they are arguing from.
MM
"The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions" - Leonardo da Vinci
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
"I think I use the term “radical” rather loosely, just for emphasis. If you describe yourself as “atheist,” some people will say, “Don’t you mean ‘agnostic’?” I have to reply that I really do mean atheist, I really do not believe that there is a god; in fact, I am convinced that there is not a god (a subtle difference). I see not a shred of evidence to suggest that there is one ... etc., etc. It’s easier to say that I am a radical atheist, just to signal that I really mean it, have thought about it a great deal, and that it’s an opinion I hold seriously." - Douglas Adams (and I echo the sentiment)
