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Determinism vs Free Will
#16
RE: Determinism vs Free Will
(May 13, 2010 at 6:16 am)Scented Nectar Wrote: Isn't free will, meaning the ability to choose, just one of the many factors that can determine an outcome?
And yet, where is that ability to choose, I wonder? Sleepy Choice in an illusion... for there is only one outcome for the one who believes they have made a choice. You could replay that 'choice' infinitely... and the result is no different the first time than it is the 8 septillionth. Losing 'choice', more than any other facet of 'free will' I am aware of, is perhaps the most detrimental to the idea.

Quote:Just like rain being determined by water weight in the clouds, which is determined by the prior evaporation of that water from a dew drop which was determined by the plant tissues excreting it, etc, so called free will is determined by things like how each choice in the decision will affect the decider (even to the gun to the head point, but also lesser things like 'that sounds boring so I'm not going to do it'), and that is decided by other things, both physical and mental (personality related), which in turn is determined by a mix (in my opinion) of genes and experience.

Free will is the idea that the will is independent of all other factors. I see no reason for this to be the case, and indeed there is neurological evidence now that it is indeed not the case.

Quote:Is any will free of all determining sources?
Nope Smile

Quote:I'm not suggesting an extreme like intent or predetermination or higher purpose of course, just that everything that we know and do can be shown to be determined or influenced to some extent by other things and events.

Actually... an intriguing thing about determinism is how well it supports the idea of fate/script/design. The only two understandings I am aware of in which this is not true, is order arising from chaos... or a natural order that has always been.

If determinism is correct (and I see no reason why it would not be)... it would mean that given sufficiently advanced mathematics/technology: every event that will ever be, is, and has ever been (within this universe, though some events may in fact modify what is prior/after so considerably it become impossible to now what came before)... becomes calculable and knowable. I think that is somewhat interesting, at the least Sleepy
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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Messages In This Thread
Determinism vs Free Will - by JoeNoshow - May 12, 2010 at 10:03 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 12, 2010 at 10:50 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by JoeNoshow - May 12, 2010 at 12:14 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Scented Nectar - May 12, 2010 at 2:29 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 12, 2010 at 3:31 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Eilonnwy - May 12, 2010 at 11:17 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 12, 2010 at 11:34 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Eilonnwy - May 12, 2010 at 11:54 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 12, 2010 at 1:33 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by JoeNoshow - May 12, 2010 at 3:10 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Scented Nectar - May 12, 2010 at 4:44 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by fr0d0 - May 13, 2010 at 9:29 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Caecilian - May 16, 2010 at 6:38 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Caecilian - May 12, 2010 at 4:58 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by brza - May 13, 2010 at 1:22 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 13, 2010 at 5:21 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by JoeNoshow - May 13, 2010 at 8:41 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Scented Nectar - May 13, 2010 at 6:16 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 13, 2010 at 8:00 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Scented Nectar - May 18, 2010 at 11:40 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 13, 2010 at 9:09 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by JoeNoshow - May 13, 2010 at 9:21 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 13, 2010 at 9:30 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 14, 2010 at 4:13 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by John_S3V - May 14, 2010 at 11:54 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Eilonnwy - May 14, 2010 at 12:02 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Violet - May 14, 2010 at 3:04 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Edwardo Piet - May 17, 2010 at 9:16 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by John_S3V - May 17, 2010 at 9:26 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by KichigaiNeko - May 18, 2010 at 5:19 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by KichigaiNeko - May 19, 2010 at 8:49 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Scented Nectar - May 20, 2010 at 3:15 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by ARMS - May 21, 2010 at 11:45 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Edwardo Piet - May 21, 2010 at 11:49 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Purple Rabbit - May 30, 2010 at 3:43 am
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by Edwardo Piet - June 5, 2010 at 4:05 pm
RE: Determinism vs Free Will - by lrh9 - June 11, 2010 at 4:05 pm

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