(July 31, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Ryantology (╯°◊°)╯︵ ══╬ Wrote: If I gravitated towards a simple 'might makes right' system, I would have never left Christianity behind, because that's precisely what you describe.
No it’s not.
Quote: I won't even bother asking you to justify this stupid idea that being a creation means I have no rights of any kind, because I know you can't do it.
Of course I can, where would your rights come from?...your creator. God created all things, including your rights.
Sounds familiar…
“All Men Are Endowed By Their Creator With Certain Unalienable Rights”
Quote: What I will bother asking you is, how can God enforce his alleged superiority over humanity? The Bible indicates plenty of examples, and every single one of them from start to finish involves asserting his power.
Yup, and he has the right to do this because He created us. You’re conflating a necessary condition with a sufficient condition, as our creator God is more powerful than us yes, but that is not why He has the right to do with us as He pleases. He has that right because as our creator He owns us.
Quote: If Christianity isn't just 'might makes right' with decorative cake frosting on it, what compels us to give a damn about Christianity?Actually that’s backwards; sin compels you to not “give a damn about Christianity”. Those who have been washed of this sin want to follow Christ.
Quote:Can't do it while anybody's looking, though. That might indicate he's not the product of a mass delusion.
That’s also false; the unregenerate could see a dead man rise from the dead and still not believe their will is entirely in bondage to their sin (Luke 16).
Quote:Did I say it wouldn't? I just looked at my previous post and I feel quite sure that I said nothing about might not making right in our purely natural universe. Might will make right anywhere that enough people decide that it does, such as in the Christian religion.
So it was morally right for the Nazis to brutally kill six million Jews? It’s morally right for men to rape women since they are more powerful? It was morally right for OJ Simpson to kill his wife and her friend since he was more powerful? None of these things would be right in a Christian Universe; I’ll take that Universe any day.
Quote: Now, while I did not deflect the question, you completely did, as you ignored entirely the second part of that quoted segment in which I asked you a question.
Well you did not actually ask anything you merely made a statement. I already explained, you’re conflating necessary conditions with sufficient conditions, having might is not enough. It’d be like saying, “Well since fire requires oxygen anytime you have oxygen you also have fire.” “Since being a creator requires power, anytime you have power you are the creator.” That does not follow, you have to actually have the ability to create something to have the creator/creature distinction and not simply have more power.
Quote:It's not about the existence of God, it's about all sorts of things.
One example from this thread:
Quote:How is it injustice? Merely asserting that does not make it so.
In response to the OP, which you gishgalloped in your characteristic fashion and should have noticed at some point that the entire post described my opinion at some length and detail. It's pointless going further on that particular score, because you've invented your own definition for the word "justice" designed specifically to absolve your god of any responsibility, and we're comparing two different kinds of tasty fruits here.
[Emphasis added by SW]
That’s your example? Yes, it was quite easy to dismiss your entire OP because as you have correctly noted it was merely your opinion. Of course, your opinion does not prove anything in the realm of logical reasoning and proof. I tried to point this out, but alas.
God has to be the ultimate standard of justice because that’s an analytical truth that comes with being defined as a god; supremacy. If God was bound to some exterior definition of justice that did not derive from Himself then He’d not be a god.
Quote: You don't frame it precisely as "it's true if you can't prove it's not".
I know.
Quote: You tend to frame it as "Prove that this is injustice", as if justice is something that can be objectively quantified.
If you’re going to start a thread completely concerning the injustice of God I am going to expect that you are at least able to prove or demonstrate that He is indeed unjust with more than your mere opinion. Too much to ask for?
Quote: It's "God is just unless you can prove he's not".
No it’s “God is just by definition.” Your objection to me asking for actual proof seems to assume that, “God is unjust until proven otherwise.” You’re guilty of the very sin you’re whining about here.
Quote: Since you can't offer a shred of proof that there is a God, that's some incredible nerve.
That’s the red herring fallacy; this thread is concerning the injustice of God not the existence of God. You have failed at demonstrating that even the concept of Yahweh-whether real or not-is unjust.
Quote:The fact that you have to resort to an example featuring a fictional character, defend the actions of another fictional character, says all that needs to be said about how terrible an argument you make.
The red herring fallacy again. You can choose whatever analogy you like- Bowerman and Knight owning Nike in the 1970s is a good one- but if you create something you own it. God created us, God owns us.
Quote:What you are saying, then, is that according to (your version of) Christian morality, the only detail that makes the Holocaust wrong is the fact that the Nazis didn't create the Jews.
No, the fact that the Nazis were violating the decreed will of He who did own the Jews. According to you what the Nazis did would have not even been morally wrong if they had won the war since societies determine their own morality, pretty disgusting when you think about it.
(July 31, 2014 at 6:35 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Every time I see this thread popping up, I'm reminded of something completely unrelated...
…
But.... is it really unrelated?
Hey, stat! I see you're still up to your old tricks!
How's that eye?
Hey buddy! Yup, I am still fighting the good fight
The eye is great, healed up and vision is better than it was pre-surgery. Pretty exciting stuff. I hope you are well and having a fantastic Summer.(July 31, 2014 at 6:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Poor Waldork....reality shits in your face every day and you pretend its ice cream.
Do remember that there is precisely as much evidence for Hansel and Gretel as there is for your fucking jesus.
Poor Min, he spends his entire time on a forum dedicated to the non-existence of an entity he claims to know does not exist. How ridiculous is that? “I spent years of my life on a forum dedicated to the non-existence of Santa Claus!” Ridiculous. Obviously he spends so much time on here because he knows God exists. It's classic self-deception.
