The root of all pain and suffering: religion.

[LivingNumbers6.626]

grow up. And wake up. You either are strong enough to love your family and understand it is ok to "hate them" sometimes or you are not. It is not the a fukin church that makes your family stupid line up monkeys. Its them. You are lucky, you see it, be thankful.

I'm not entirely sure if you understand the destruction created by the Mormon church. It has a way of finding extremely intelligent persons, and conning them out of their money.

The reason why the church is filthy rich is because of the intelligence there in. They know how to sling money. I wouldn't exactly call them monkeys, but victims.

This has nothing to do with coming to terms with their beliefs, it has to deal with the nature of those beliefs and how they destroy their cognitive peace.

I had displayed two sentiments revealing my (1) thankfulness and (2) empathy.

So please do not mistake my post as disdain, because that was not at all the proposition.

The ultimate proposition or question I intend is "how do we improve the lives of those inflected with superstition? is there a method to cure the world of pain caused my religion, specifically.

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Here...consider these gifts for your healing process.

Haha, thank you

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Might I make a recommendation? This post alone could spawn several worthwhile threads: stereotypical collegiate experience juxtaposed to Mormon religious expectations, Mormons being financialy responsible for their missions, tything, conflict of academic pursuits and church doctrine, and the LDS influence on family regarding apostates. In fact, we could have a meaningful discussion on each item in your list of 8.

If your purpose is to just get things off your chest, then so be it. Some may not read it because of the length, but I read it and find myself wanting to reply to much of it. Not parsed, my reply would easily triple the length.

How to I improve the living of those around me? Rational arguments don't work. Evidence doesn't work. What works?

I wanted to reply to an earlier thread of yours, but can't honestly remember if I did. My situation is different in that my brother became Mormon about 22 years ago. My mother followed suit a decade later. I have spent a fair amount of time researching Mormonism, although as I've told my Mormon family members, it would be unfair to categorize my activity as investigating the church. Think of it more as stockpiling intellectual ammunition.

To answer your question, reason won't work when it comes to LDS doctrine. Mormons, like most other religious people, can be perfectly reasonable in all other areas of their lives; however, toss that out when it comes to their doctrine. An anecdote...

My brother invited me to a dinner party. I had been an overnight guest of the hosts on several occasions. We enjoyed eash others' company and religion was rarely a topic of discussion. After a fabulous dinner and great conversation we adjourned to the living room, where even though I was now desperate for a cigarette and glass of port, I most looked forward to the continuing banter. My brother attempted to take a seat, but in a motion that can only be explained by him having springs in his ass, took center stage to ask an important question. "Why is reason given superiority over revelation?".

The hosts, with an obvious polite deference to me, attempted to pass it off; however, my brother sensing a homefield advantage demanded an answer. I winked at my hosts and said, "Perfectly reasonable question which I'm prepared to answer".

I slowly stood up, grabbed my zipper and calmly asserted, "I bet you have ten good reasons why I shouldn't reveal myself this once."

Leave the heavy philosophical conversations for one-on-ones or an environment where it's expected, but there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't assert yourself in a crowd with a lighthearted tone. It's been over an hour so I may be too late....

You can still enjoy the company of family and friends despite your apostasy, just avoid the issue. There's plenty more to discuss. If someone presses, do your best to deflect; a joke always helps. If someone crosses the line into being rude you will likely have others around you to help defuse the situation. If there's not another sympathetic soul, all cannons fire on the up row.

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The root of all pain and suffering inflicted by man upon his fellow man is the insatiable desire for power and wealth at the expense of others.

Sounds reasonable; however, I think the pain and suffering caused by intolerance has a betable horse in this race.

Thank you for your input, I will certainly be putting your anecdote to heart. I sincerely hope your brother finds his way out someday.

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I agree with all those who had said that pain and suffering is inherent more in mankind in general than just religion. Sometimes I get a bit irrational and exaggerated. But I still believe that religion is something that should be reduced, and something that may be easily reducible.