Rhythm Wrote:Apparently not, if we (thinking things, whatever you want to put in that box) all went the way of the dodo most of the photosynthesizers wouldn't notice. If they all went they way of the dodo, we'd notice - right before we followed them.
Our dependence on them has no bearing on the qualities each respective species possesses. It's like saying the engineering feats of a Ferrari are undermined by the fact it depends on oil to run. Well no, it still rightly has merits.
Quote:Interestingly, this vine is incapable of producing it's own nutrients. It's what we in the biz call an obligate parasite. The seedlings have roughly 72 hours after germination to find a host plant or they die. Perhaps even more interestingly, they seem to prefer particular hosts more than others. Tomatos are a favorite (and that's why they're a favorite of mine). Perhaps even more interestingly, they have been shown, both in the field and under lab conditions, to consistently "choose" a favored host rather than a quicker, easier host. They locate these choice cuts by means of chemical signatures in green leaf volatiles (GLVs). They will even choose a synthetic alternative (distilled GLV) over the actual host from which those GLV are distilled if the concentration of GLV is higher in the synthetic, or the actual host plant is inhibited from producing them (or the vine inhibited from detecting them). Let me stress this, because it can;t be overstated. They have a 72 hour death clock....and will actively pass up a food source if they detect a favored host, utilizing their built up nutrients and phototropism to spiral out until they find whatever it is they were "looking" for. Sometimes......this causes their death. More often than not, it leads to them locating and exploiting a much better food source.
They make choices (or what we can only conceive of as mechanically identical to choices), responding to environmental stimuli - gambling with data. All of this without any "thought" to speak of (or at least no mechanism that we would traditionally associate with thought) - and it works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuscuta
This reminds me of the sunflower, which always points towards the sun. Now, I wouldn't say it's "aware" of the sun, or it "chooses" to point towards it. I'd say it's photons being causally related to bits of the sunflower which then mechanically make it do its thing. Likewise with your example, it's merely a matter of perhaps certain chemicals present in its environment to which it then causally "responds" to. But thoughts or beliefs..? Not present as far as I can see.
Quote:Notable for the purposes of this thread because it has been demonstrably shown, again in the wild and under lab conditions - to possess kin recognition. Animals use this ability for a variety of reasons (social, competitive, reproductive). In the case of Sea Rocket, it's competitive (more accurately, the lack of competition in their case). In the presence of it's kin it "politely" curbs root growth and cooperates with it's neighboring siblings, maximizing the overall uptake of nutrients by members of it's specific genetic lineage as a unit. In the presence of non-kin members of the same species (or other species of plants) - it shows no such regard, aggressively invading it's neighbors rootspace.
Again, I'm sure certain chemicals are present to which the plant then causally reacts to.
Quote:Now, for something completely down to earth - and the final installment (for now..or until such time as I make a thread about this stuff...lol)- corn and lima beans.
Corn and Lima beans display a set of behaviors so impressive that it make make us stop and wonder just how impressive our own behaviors are. When attacked by a particular species of caterpillar, both of these plants begin to emit a chemical signal that lures parasitic wasps, who, upon locating the source of the plant signal, find a wonderful place to set up shop - eventually annihilating the caterpillars. They don't emit this signal when they are attacked by aphids or beetles.
http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/121/2/325.full
So, they are apparently - somehow- "self aware". They "know" when they are being attacked. Not only that, they have some idea of whats attacking them. To further compound this little mystery they then produce a signal which attracts a specific predator - that then preys on this specific predator itself. That is some mind bogglingly complex stuff right there. Now, I;ve used quotation marks in alot of this - because the words in them are useful for conveying what the plants are doing, but not so useful in that what they are doing bears no real analogue to the manner in which we do similar things. What stands out, is that the same -effect- is achieved. I don't want to insinuate that we aren't better "thinkers" - objectively, we are- however, and this is a big however, "thinking"...or the effect of thought, awareness, choice, planning, etc doesn't seem to be something that plants are incapable of. Some of them do seem to possess that ability (or something similar to a similar or identical effect- and at what point thinking, or thought, or consciousness is not considered an effect - I wouldn't know)- and all the while they possess abilities that we do not.
So no, I don't think we have a "leg up", we simply have legs (and they do not).
And once again, I'm sure chemicals are at play here, especially when this plant sends off a "signal" of its own.
Now while all these little gimmicks do seem impressive, there isn't a conscious entity behind any of it. They're all simply complex machines capable of receiving an input and then causally producing something as an output. And as for whose more superior, I think it all depends on what our standard for judging would be - a different topic altogether.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle