RE: refuting misconceptions:1-women in Islam
June 6, 2010 at 12:04 am
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2010 at 11:56 am by AtheistPhil.)
Ok, I've made a few research to discuss your interpretation of the Qur'an about women.
I found that women can be sent to hell with their husbands if the husbands are wrong-doers:
37:22-23
It makes a big difference, as one can be kind/good and condescending at the same time!
I think your translation comes from Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and from what I've seen his translation is "light" compared to the others, in all the languages I could understand.
"Men are in charge of women", "Men have authority on women" are other translations I found.
4:34
If she's guarding the husband's property, she can go outside, and therefore can't work outside.
I also found:
2:227-228
4:11
4:176
Please give me the verse telling when a woman shall inherit more than a man.
I don't buy your explanation on men's responsibilities for financial stuff. It doesn't excuse the fact that a woman's testimony is half worth of a man's.
And if it really were so that men deals with financial stuff and are knowledgable about it and the women are not so knowledgable about it then no women testimony would be taken into account at all, or at the very least should count very few, the 1 for 2 figure comes out of nowhere in 2:282 and has no logical justification.
And it's not just for financial stuff according to a hadith by Abu Said Al-Khudri :
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
Also, how do you reconcile 2:256 with this:
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them.
24:30-31
(And what is up with the slave owning being OK in this verse ????)
Also, the Qur'an treats the men as superior to women. As I said before :
There is an entire Surah (4) dedicated to "how men must treat women" but there is no Surah about how women must treat men. There is a good reason for that:
4:34
Knowing this, the verse 33:59 can be rightly interpreted as an injunction to the women to cover their body.
Also, how do you reconcile 4:34 with the declaration of human rights ????
I think the Islam's problem is not only that some muslims ignore certain verses or interpret them in a bad way, it is mainly that the meaning of ancient arabic words is uncertain and that there is no consensus about it.
[I used in this post translations of the Qur'an by: Muhammad Habib Shakir, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Muhammad Pickthal, Mohsin Khan, André Chouraqui, and other translations whose author I can't find.]
(I really need to sleep now, it's 6am here...zzzz....I'll check answers in 10 hours.)
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 1-judgement in sight of Allah:
I found that women can be sent to hell with their husbands if the husbands are wrong-doers:
37:22-23
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 3-woman as a wife:The bold part is subject to interpretation as for the translation, I found 3 other english translations: "treat them kindly", "treat them honourably", "consort with them in kindness". I also found 2 French translations and 1 German with no mention of "equity" at all. Your translation seems to be minor.
It makes a big difference, as one can be kind/good and condescending at the same time!
I think your translation comes from Abdullah Yusuf Ali, and from what I've seen his translation is "light" compared to the others, in all the languages I could understand.
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: The man cannot deal with his wife with harshness but in contrary he must be kind with herThat is the "light" version of this verse, and you forgot to quote the next sentence: "Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient"
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means”(Quran 4:34)
Its on the man shoulder to protect and provide financial support to his family
"Men are in charge of women", "Men have authority on women" are other translations I found.
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: If a Woman works, which she does not have to whatever earning she gets, it is absolutely her property She need not spend on the house if she wants to spend it is her free will.and there is no place in the Quran or sunnah that says that woman should not work but she should do her part as a mother even if she is working
4:34
If she's guarding the husband's property, she can go outside, and therefore can't work outside.
I also found:
2:227-228
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: Anything other than that the women and men are equal if the Quran didn’t mention that it is the responsibility of one of them.So you're aknowledging that men and women are not equal in the Qur'an.
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 4-when getting married:This is a hadith, not in the Qur'an.
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 5-inheritance:Inheritance seems pretty self-explanatory on the contrary:
4:11
4:176
Please give me the verse telling when a woman shall inherit more than a man.
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: 5-women and law:
I don't buy your explanation on men's responsibilities for financial stuff. It doesn't excuse the fact that a woman's testimony is half worth of a man's.
And if it really were so that men deals with financial stuff and are knowledgable about it and the women are not so knowledgable about it then no women testimony would be taken into account at all, or at the very least should count very few, the 1 for 2 figure comes out of nowhere in 2:282 and has no logical justification.
And it's not just for financial stuff according to a hadith by Abu Said Al-Khudri :
The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."
(May 29, 2010 at 4:02 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: “Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.”(Quran 2:256)"there is no compulsion in religion"; but disbelievers will burn hell .... what a choice !
no one(father,husband,brother or even mother) has the right to force a woman to wear hijab its her choice I live in a muslim country some is wearing hijab and some is not wearing
Also, how do you reconcile 2:256 with this:
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them.
24:30-31
(And what is up with the slave owning being OK in this verse ????)
Also, the Qur'an treats the men as superior to women. As I said before :
Quote:the Qur'an gives advices to the husband if his wife misbehaves and as far as I know not the other way around: the husband is shown as the head of the household and the one responsible for saving the marriage and dealing with problems in the household. He is in charge thus superior to his wife.
There is an entire Surah (4) dedicated to "how men must treat women" but there is no Surah about how women must treat men. There is a good reason for that:
4:34
Knowing this, the verse 33:59 can be rightly interpreted as an injunction to the women to cover their body.
Also, how do you reconcile 4:34 with the declaration of human rights ????
I think the Islam's problem is not only that some muslims ignore certain verses or interpret them in a bad way, it is mainly that the meaning of ancient arabic words is uncertain and that there is no consensus about it.
[I used in this post translations of the Qur'an by: Muhammad Habib Shakir, Abdullah Yusuf Ali, Muhammad Pickthal, Mohsin Khan, André Chouraqui, and other translations whose author I can't find.]
(I really need to sleep now, it's 6am here...zzzz....I'll check answers in 10 hours.)
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