(September 5, 2014 at 1:28 pm)orangebox21 Wrote:(September 5, 2014 at 11:02 am)Losty Wrote: The thing is that something commanded (regardless of who commands it) cannot be voluntary.That would be true if and only if the command necessitated the commanded action. For example, imagine you're driving and you come to a stop sign. It has been commanded that you stop. Does this mean you involuntarily stop? Certainly you could not stop if you wanted to.
(September 5, 2014 at 11:02 am)Losty Wrote: It is either not voluntary or it is not commanded.
Or it is both, it is commanded that it be voluntary.
(September 5, 2014 at 11:02 am)Losty Wrote: Also, I know Christians like to live in their fake world of perfection, but in. Reality the husband often does demand this submission. As well as the church, family, friends, and religious community of the woman.I'm sorry that your experience with the Christian community was so negative. I've personally had experience with a Christian community that used the scripture 'submit to your [Church] leaders' as justification to coerce control over my life. It's been almost 10 years since I left, and I still haven't fully recovered.
(September 5, 2014 at 11:02 am)Losty Wrote: If a woman chooses to submit to her husband it should be a beautiful act of trust and loyalty, not a terrifying nightmare of religious coercion. I'm not saying all Christian women who submit to their husbands have the nightmare version, I'm just saying that it is very very real.
I agree.
(September 5, 2014 at 11:02 am)Losty Wrote: Every woman has the right to choose and if she should choose not to submit to her husband then she's still a good person and just as good of a woman as one who does submit.I agree that every wife has a choice to make, namely whether or not to submit to her husband.
If we assume that disobedience to God's word is bad, how can a person choosing to follow God's word be just as 'good' as a person choosing to break it?
I'm going to give you a choice. You can give me all your money, or I will shoot you. It's your choice. You are volunteering to give me your money.
This is the essence of your argument. I've simply replaced God with myself and submission with money. The result is the same. If you don't do said action you are disobeying God and deserve hell. If you don't do said action you get death.