God, Christianity, Control, & Fear

[tackattack]

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[hide]No, no you're both (Caecilian and Paul) missing the point of inclusiveness. It's a counter to the idea that non-believers have that " So if you're not a Christian you're going to hell" schtick. It's the stance of a lot of non-denominational Church movements. We're not saying sure anyone can get into heaven either mind you. It would be completely unreasonable though, for God to punish people who's only exposure to his grace would be from nature (some remote tribe) or who didn't have the mental fascilities to understand the message (mentallly disabled or children). People before Jesus still got into heaven, so Jesus obviously isn't the only way. Since Jesus, and if you know of the message, the only way to God is through Jesus' teachings. For instance you're blind and in a third world country with no access to religion. You still have the laws of God written on your heart (for literalist atheists that means inherit to your nature) and can therefore get into heaven. The main message being that God only requires as much belief and faith as he's revealed in his Grace. It's not our responsibility to have faith, it's God's responsibility to show us reasons to have faith in him. Remember, true faith isn't without notitia, which requires illumination from God. Similarly, someone could live in absolute blind faith their entire life and speak about God and believe without a shadow of a doubt that God exists and pray to baby jesus all the time and not get into heaven. This is described as happening in the Bible, he spoke to Phillip about it and in the parable of the narrow door. I think the Christian movement sees people like muslims, LDS, and Jews as going to "Hell" (wth ever that is), not because they're sinners or they're "god" isn't the same "God" but because they intentionally turn away from Jesus' teachings. Jews before Jesus obviously got into heaven, that's in the Bible to I'm pretty sure. Breakdown from a Christian perspective:
1-For God to know you he's had to reveal himself to you
2-For you to know God you have to either
a) had the message of Jesus brought to you
b) acknowledge revelations God has for you
3- To qualify for eternity both 1 and 2 have to had happened and yoou have to follow that path he's provided for you.
4- You're left outside the door to eternal life if you turn away from either 1 or 2 or the path they lead to.

I hope that explains it a little better.

And from whence do you derive this knowledge? as I don't recall seeing it in the bible.

Or this another example of xtians trying to make their religion more palatable?

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It seems tackattack's god is a cafetaria-model type of god. You don't restrict yourself in picking from the bible. Which is fine by me actually, everybody has the right to fabulate his own god concept into existence. It's a human right.

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To answer you both the Bible. Zen if you want specific example of references please be specific in your request to shorten my post. PR we've been over this, yes the Bible is a crappy literal list of laws and outdated metaphors. I try and take out as many personifications out as possible and read something for it's entirety and in context. Yes, God is a personal God. Yes, God could, and probably does, exist as an entity outside the known universe. For a concept of God I look to a)ancient scriptures and place their context in my modern life b)personal subjective observations c) logic and reason. I've told you why I don't subscribe to the personifications touted as evil by atheists. I've told you a few of the descriptors I don't see as personifications are the ones I apply and are validated though fellow Christians understanding and personal observation in reality. I'm telling you what you're picking off of the buffet (to continue your metaphor) isn't actually food and you say I'm only picking the good tastey treats off the table. Does that about sum it up?

@ KichigaiNeko- When you bring a valid point to the table and stop calling me honey I'd be more than happy to address any points you have.