(September 23, 2014 at 9:19 am)whateverist Wrote: I'm just taking this all in. It's a new idea for me to think of such a cornerstone of Christianity as something possibly beyond redemption.Huh?...I think Michael, Frodo, and I still consider redemption central in the sense that Christ saves us from ignorance, sin, and error. Not sure about Frodo, by Mike and I both favor Christ Victorious.
Some Christians believing in substitutionary atonement and appeasement theories of salvation does not mean that redemption depends on the validity of these particular theories. Redemption also means transforming what was before worthless into something useful.
In Christ Victorious theory the body or Flesh is not intrinsically evil; but rather corrupted in such a way that people cannot, by their own power overcome its limitations, like in Paul’s rhetorical example when he says, “that which I wish to do, I do not and that which I wish not, I do.” In its corrupted state the body is an active hindrance to the life of virtue.
So along comes Jesus. Like everyone else, He has by birth a corrupted physical body. That is the basis for biblical references like, took on the sins of the world, the Word became flesh, etc. However, because of the virgin birth outwardly He has the body of Man, but inwardly He has the Holy Spirit. He is uniquely qualified to redeem the flesh, by overcoming all temptations to which the body is prone. The temptation in the dessert describes this process.
Those who study such things recognize parallels between Jesus and pagan Osirus-Dionysus mystery religions. But there is very important difference. In the mystery religions, the initiates underwent rituals designed to cultivate an awareness of the Higher Self, or daemon, by which the initiate could, by their own power overcome the limitations of the eidolon, or physical body.
In contrast to this, Christianity says, no, ordinary humans cannot by their own power do that on their own. (…they are weak, but He is strong.) Thus they need to borrow the power of the Holy Spirit to drive out the evil out for them. This is the inner meaning of the parable of the Strong Man (Matthew 12:25-26).
(September 23, 2014 at 9:19 am)whateverist Wrote: Perhaps the only way to redeem Christianity is to transcend all the literalness…a path whereby everyone redeems the world -or at least his own world.I agree that much of the Gospels include allegorical elements. However, a purely allegorical Christ would symbolize each person’s self-overcoming which is not what Jesus himself taught. Thus we need a historical Christ, someone who, by the power of the Holy Spirit, actually did have the power to overcome that corruption, so that when people invite Him into their hearts, He drives the evil from them, thereby redeeming their flesh. The invitation is called repentance. The process of regeneration is called “the forgiveness of sin.” And the final state of redemption is called “glorification”.