(October 6, 2014 at 12:58 am)Chuck Wrote:(October 5, 2014 at 11:57 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Bat shit fundie xtianity came into its own in the late 19th/early 20th century. When the shitheads sing about "That Old Time Religion" they are really only looking back about 20 years!
The fundie Wahabists in Islam date from the mid 18th century. Granted, the Sufists, like al-Ghazali, put the screws to scientific thought in Baghdad in the 13th century.
Christianity has been the problem with Christians long before there ever was any modern fundie. Prior to modern fundies being distinguished from other christianis pretty much every christian would have been a fundie. Christianity became a particular problem when available means of truth finding begin to surpass the ability of Christians to bullshit. That was around 1500s.
Fundie wahabists had no influence prior to about 1880s. On the whole Islam of 16-19th century was broadly speaking comparatively laid back in much of the Islamic world next to what we might think it had been from the perspective of news inundation by the acts of modern radical militant Islam. Several author made the case that proximal statt of modern militant Islam, and the opportunity for wahabistss to gain influence in the wider world, occurred between 1880-1900 with a surge of islamic religious students moving to study in what is now Saudi arabia in the aftermath of expansion of European colonialism in Africa and Indonesia /Malaysia.
If I may,
Not to judge but I feel it is wrong to say "This religion is a problem or that one is a problem." Every religion, every race, every country, every damn group that's been here has had good and bad people. I don't agree with extremist Christians or extremist Muslims, but I'd think twice about judging each and every one.
Without Christianity-
1) No Oxford, Cambridge, U of Paris, (Bologna in Italy was perhaps the first) or any other universities.
2) No one to hold off the Ottomans. If it weren't for the Austrians, 80% of Europe would be Muslim.
3) The Crusades were bad I agree, but no one ever talks about the Islamic Conquest of Christian Syria and Egypt in the 7th century (Note- I am not anti-Muslim)
4) It made for brilliant artwork in the renaissance
Arguably without Islam, Europe wouldn't ever have recovered from the Dark ages.
So I'm not saying the good things outweigh the bad, just saying we shouldn't condemn certain people by what they believe
