The problem with muslims...

[Napoléon]

While surfing the net I came across a rather interesting article. In this article a guy (who is apparently an evolutionary psychologist) highlighted a very good point about the majority of muslims. They are very much Muslim first and everything else second. Here is the article in question:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-...ng-muslims

According to the 2007 report by the Pew Research Center, 81% of Muslims in the United Kingdom consider themselves Muslim first, British second. 81%!

Now on the face of it, you might not see much of a problem with this. But is it any wonder why "multi-culturalism" has failed as much as it has when this particular group identify themselves by their faith over their nationality?
BTW multi-culturalism in the UK has failed, Cameron said it himself here:

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3xsnEzA8Fw

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As well as this Cameron picked up on "segregated communities". Now from living in Birmingham, let me tell you, there are certain areas which are thoroughly dominated by muslims. Again on the face of it this isn't a bad thing, is it? But when you consider that these communities essentially corden themselves off from the rest of society, and make up a sizeable chunk of society too, I think it's a pretty big problem. Here's some figures: http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/1...ities.html

To demonstrate the way that muslims do in effect divide themselves from the rest of society here is another article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment...537594.ece

they dominate entire districts in the vicinities of their more than 1,350 mosques: 10 of them in Luton alone

“Migrants in the past tended to sink roots. Nowadays, with cheap long-haul jet travel, Pakistanis have homes in Britain and back in Pakistan. Satellite TV and mobile phones enable families to live in this country as if they were elsewhere. They are still mentally, spiritually and even physically back in Pakistan or Bangladesh.”

With all that muslims do to seperate themselves from the communities they live in, is it any wonder why the majority of Westerner's are as alienated by them as we are?

It's not because of terrorism, or extremists, or even scum like Anjem Choudary that people don't like muslims. It's because of the divisive nature of their religion itself. And until some big changes happen to help modernise this religion quickly, I'd say Islam will continue to have the very much backward, alien and foreign label it has.

[5thHorseman]

I live in Cambridge, probably the most multicultural place on the planet.

Multiculturalism DOES work here............ to an extent.

I have been to leicester and other largely populated muslim areas(cambridge seems quite low comparitavely). They ruin it, i have never been to a majority muslim area and actually liked it. I worked in Tower Hamlets once and I constantly felt uneasy. Muslims do not seem to integrate at all, or even seem willing. Perhaps thats just the older generation, i dont know. Though I have had no problems with any other culture.

[Napoléon]

I live in Cambridge, probably the most multicultural place on the planet.

Multiculturalism DOES work here............ to an extent.

I have been to leicester and other largely populated muslim areas(cambridge seems quite low comparitavely). They ruin it, i have never been to a majority muslim area and actually liked it. I worked in Tower Hamlets once and I constantly felt uneasy. Muslims do not seem to integrate at all, or even seem willing. Perhaps thats just the older generation, i dont know. Though I have had no problems with any other culture.

Cambridge probably has a huge variation of cultures simply because of the university. I may be wrong.
Multi-culturalism CAN work, but only when every culture really wants to integrate.
At the moment in the UK it seems to me that we are several cultures living side by side, rather than together.

[5thHorseman]

I live in Cambridge, probably the most multicultural place on the planet.

Multiculturalism DOES work here............ to an extent.

I have been to leicester and other largely populated muslim areas(cambridge seems quite low comparitavely). They ruin it, i have never been to a majority muslim area and actually liked it. I worked in Tower Hamlets once and I constantly felt uneasy. Muslims do not seem to integrate at all, or even seem willing. Perhaps thats just the older generation, i dont know. Though I have had no problems with any other culture.

Cambridge probably has a huge variation of cultures simply because of the university. I may be wrong. correct
Multi-culturalism CAN work, but only when every culture really wants to integrate.agreed
At the moment in the UK it seems to me that we are several cultures living side by side, rather than together.agreed again

[Minimalist]

I still think the problem is that they tie the towel too tightly around their heads.

[Rwandrall]

The "Muslim first" is not a problem specifically Muslim, i mean if you ask any christian who comes first between Jesus and Georges Washington, the answer will be pretty obvious. If you ask a catholic who comes first between Obama and the Pope, same thing.

The real question is whether Muslim presence is actually threatening our rights. And for now i do see that a little bit: some pools have women-only hours specifically designed for Muslim women because they can't bathe with men, etc. It's still small but i'm afraid it might grow...

[Napoléon]

The "Muslim first" is not a problem specifically Muslim, i mean if you ask any christian who comes first between Jesus and Georges Washington, the answer will be pretty obvious. If you ask a catholic who comes first between Obama and the Pope, same thing.

I disagree with this. Muslims are (in my experience) the ONLY major religion in the UK which is actively and noticeably creating a divide between itself and the state. The christians over here, whilst many may be very devout, I think would still place their country and countrymen above their religious beliefs.
If you think 81% of UK christians would place their faith above their country I think you'd be massively wrong. In fact I think that first article gives a good response to this.

The real question is whether Muslim presence is actually threatening our rights. And for now i do see that a little bit: some pools have women-only hours specifically designed for Muslim women because they can't bathe with men, etc. It's still small but i'm afraid it might grow...

Muslims may not be directly "affecting our freedoms" as it were but seen as they already have shitloads of sharia courts in the UK they are forcing their own rules onto the state.

[fr0d0]

I'm from Leicester and I know the Islamic community to be separatist and increasingly so. I think it therefore comes about from the sheer number of like minded people grouped closely together (the Asian mindset of close community is a great thing).

How can you force large groupings like these to do things counter to their culture? Surely if they pay their dues that can have what they like?

[5thHorseman]

You can't force them. But no, they should integrate and become part of the Uk culture and not turn Leicester or Birmingham into little Islamabad. This is the UK not Pakistan, if I moved there I would respect their culture, they should do the same. But they do not.

[Napoléon]

How can you force large groupings like these to do things counter to their culture? Surely if they pay their dues that can have what they like?

That's a question I'd like to know the answer to frodo.

I agree in principal people should be able to do what they like if they pay their taxes and whatnot, but these 'no-go zones' which have formed are geniunely bad places for people of non-muslim faith or non asian backgrounds to be. Now I'm sorry, but if I went over to Pakistan, along with say, 200,000 christians, and started taking over entire areas, posting up signs saying 'No asians allowed in this area after 7pm' you think Pakistan would be fine with that? Hell no they wouldn't.

And to say that this division is not causing problems in the UK is willfully ignorant. It's all well and good them coming from another culture and everything, but for fuck sake if you're living in the UK be a part of UK society. There isn't this problem with any other major group of people that I know of.
[/Rant-Hat]