RE: Is nihilism the logical extreme of atheism?
October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2014 at 1:50 pm by fr0d0.)
(October 7, 2014 at 10:48 am)Jenny A Wrote:(October 7, 2014 at 7:28 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I think our position (Christians and other theists) is reasoned where atheisms is sensed. The bible, for example, is evidence of the reasoning process. Atheists can reason and do, although their reasoning is limited to a non perfect reality as it's base. Intrinsically inferior. So of course, a moral system encompassing justice trumps a moral system based upon injustice.
Interesting. If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that:
1) Reality or our perception of it is flawed (which? both?);
2) Therefore any reasoning based upon that imperfect reality is flawed;
3) Atheists only have access to reality, therefore any moral reasoning by atheists is flawed
and
1) god is perfectly just
2) reasoning to determine what god's justice is, is not necessarily flawed because it god's justice exists.
So I'm supposing for a minute that this just god exists and therefore so does a kind of platonic ideal justice. The problem is that even if that is the case, humans clearly have an extraordinarily flawed understanding of what god or his justice really is. So:
1) Any reasoning based upon a flawed perception is inherently flawed;
2) God is the definition of justice;
3) And Christians have a limited and flawed perception of god and his justice;
4) Christians reason based upon their flawed perception of god;
5) Christians have a flawed moral system.
Which would explain the numerous contradictory theist views, both between sects and over time, on the nature of god and justice.
I would go a step further because I see no evidence of this god entity.
1) The ancients understanding of reality was considerably more flawed than our own flawed understanding;
2) Theists have a tradition about reality including a god figure which evolved out of ancient man's attempts to explain those parts of reality he found inexplicable.
3) Theists now allow the ancients flawed tradition about reality to be a greater authority than actual perception or scientific advances when determining what reality is;
4) Thus though the perception of all men about reality is flawed, theists perception is more flawed than atheists;
Thus the morals of the religious extremists tend to be stuck somewhere between 500 BC and 300 AD.
You're adding in a few illogical caveats. IMO you're confusing what is very simple.
Reality is flawed.
Reasoning from it is limited by those flaws.
Hence the atheist position
God is perfectly just
Reasoning from God reasons a just reality.
Human flaws exist. We are only capable of perfect justice given our inclusion of God. If we fail, then yes, it doesn't work. No problem there. This is what we deal with.
"Christian" not acting as if God were just are exactly the same as atheists. You're not disproving Christianity by saying that people failing at Christianity define it. They don't.
Mainstream Christianity as I practice and accept it encompasses many interpretations that the church body accepts as valid. Some interpretations are judged to be flawed, like Mormonism, and are not accepted.
Evidence of God isn't in question. Only belief is.
The ancients view of reality has zero to do with this subject.
Humans worked out what God was. Science had nothing to do with that, and has made zero advancements in it.
Theists observe a functional belief system.
Flawed thinking by atheists and theists is flawed thinking.
Atheism is limited to a flawed reality. Theism isn't limited to that flawed reality, but humans can and do fail as they are flawed.