(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:
You're adding in a few illogical caveats. IMO you're confusing what is very simple.
Reality is flawed.
Reasoning from it is limited by those flaws.
Hence the atheist position
God is perfectly just
Reasoning from God reasons a just reality.
You are jumping right over the problem that even if god exists your knowledge of him is hopelessly flawed.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Human flaws exist. We are only capable of perfect justice given our inclusion of God. If we fail, then yes, it doesn't work. No problem there. This is what we deal with.
IF we fail? Jesus pretty much said you will fail at practicing perfect justice. But practice isn't the point. The point is can you determine what perfect justice is? Even assuming god is that perfection, how can you determine what justice is given your limited understanding of god?
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: "Christian" not acting as if God were just are exactly the same as atheists. You're not disproving Christianity by saying that people failing at Christianity define it. They don't.
How do you act in a way that demonstrates your knowlege that god is just?
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Mainstream Christianity as I practice and accept it encompasses many interpretations that the church body accepts as valid. Some interpretations are judged to be flawed, like Mormonism, and are not accepted.
It's those many interpretations that demonstrate that if there is a god, you have an imperfect understanding of him. ----- Mormonism is only a religion that is more easily demonstrated to be wanting as it's origins are more easily researched.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Evidence of God isn't in question. Only belief is.It's always in question until proved. Belief has nothing to do with reality.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The ancients view of reality has zero to do with this subject.
Humans worked out what God was.
If humans did work out what god is (and I don't think so) it was people pre 200 AD who did (Ancients) and they did it based on their understanding of reality.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Science had nothing to do with that, and has made zero advancements in it.
Science has to do with understanding how reality works. And science works in that it allows us to make predictions about reality and to improve our lot.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Theists observe a functional belief system.
What demonstrable function does it perform?
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Flawed thinking by atheists and theists is flawed thinking.
Atheism is limited to a flawed reality.
No it is limited by flawed understanding of reality.
(October 7, 2014 at 1:49 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Theism isn't limited to that flawed reality, but humans can and do fail as they are flawed.
Whether you believe in god or not you have only reality from which to draw the conclusion that god does or does not exist.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.