Gods supposed perfection

[orangebox21]

A discussion of free will:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

Is it true that those who reject Christ will be in hell? Yes. Does the video tell the whole story? No.

The video misrepresents Christ and the individual opening the door. The video makes no distinction of the moral condition of the individual opening the door. There is no discussion as to whether or not the individual is guilty of breaking the law or not. It implies that the individual is at least morally neutral and at most innocent. Secondly, it shows Christ as giving an ultimatum. Choose me or go to hell, the choice is up to you. Truthfully His statement is: "You are on your way to hell, but there is a way out. I am the way and the truth and the life, whoever believes in me will not perish but have eternal life."

A better analogy would be as follows. A policeman comes to your door. He shows you video footage of you speeding. You know you were speeding and he knows you were speeding. You have broken the law. The policeman says to you, "I can forgive you your legal debt if you ask me to." How will you respond?

Will you deny that you did anything wrong? Will you argue that the punishment for speeding is unjust and therefore the policeman is being immoral? Will you ask for forgiveness?

He could have given only the ability, motivation and thoughts to do good things, and to always be happy doing them.

Why do you think this statement is true?

Why would we not ask such things? We are free willed and curious people.

Please define what you mean by free will.

Why should we just take someone's word for it that they are all knowing and powerful?

If a being exists that is all knowing and powerful then the only way to know this being is all knowing and powerful would be to take His word for it.

It's not a position that the empiricist, rationalist, or skeptic is comfortable taking, having to rely on someone or something else. It is however a more reasonable position. Given that man does not know everything, we would have no way to test something that does know everything.

Kings will say they have a divine right to rule, but they can be toppled like any other if the people are abused enough. That's how Human society works. We need a system that benefits us, and the strong minority may like to push the weak majority down to maintain power, but eventually the weak majority will rise up and overthrow an oppressive ruler. Why? Because they ask questions about their current state of affairs. Why would we not do the same with the idea of a god? Especially since the best idea we have of god comes from people who claim to be inspired by him.

Should a child ever question his parents? Yes. Should a creation ever question his creator, if that was possible? Yes. I know those verses are meant to be rhetorical, and the implied answer is no, but I say the obvious answer should be yes.

Society responding to a king, the majority responding to the minority, children questioning parents, are all examples of human to human relationships. It is non-sequitur to show that what is true of human to human relationships would necessarily be true of human to God relationships.

I know those verses are meant to be rhetorical, and the implied answer is no, but I say the obvious answer should be yes. We should always question, because that's how we gain knowledge and progress as a species.

There is a specific question being addressed in this passage. The verse is not to be expanded in such a way as to support anti-intellectualism. Ironically, the question being asked in the text is answered in the text.

I know this is a bit random, but if Adam and Eve ate the fruit, and discovered that being naked was wrong, why were they naked in the first place? Nevermind exactly why they thought it was wrong, since people have to be taught that running around naked is wrong.

You can do some research into what theologians say about this. Here is the layman's explanation.

The shame they felt [from being naked] was due to their loss of right standing [righteousness] with God (spiritual death). This is reinforced in that they 'hid' from God. The sacrificial system [the foreshadowing of Christ] was implemented when God slaughtered an animal [a sacrifice for sin] and covered their nakedness [shame from sin]. The covering of their nakedness is an alluding to Christ when His righteousness, through His sacrifice, is imputed to us through faith and covers over us.

Often we want God to be how we want Him to be, act how we want Him to act, so as to serve our wills. We want to create a God in our image. This is the perspective of humanism interpreting scripture, namely "It should be all about ME, all for MY benefit." Well, who are you oh man that you should.....

It's not about what we want; it's about what words mean. Perfect has a meaning: flawless.

However, your god is very clearly flawed, and his own behavior in Genesis is a tacit admission of it. I mean, he made humans, and then realized that the vast majority of them were so flawed as to be beyond even his powers to redeem, so he killed all but seven of them.

That is your god saying, "Gee, I fucked up. I'd better start over."

How do you know that He made humans, and then "realized that the vast majority of them were so flawed as to be beyond even his powers to redeem, so He killed all but seven of them?" How do you know it wasn't that God created humans, and then "choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? [And] What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?"

You must misrepresent the Biblical God (create a god in an image you want for your purpose [to argue against]), in order to bring an accusation against Him.

We want to create a God in our image.

Right. And the results include religions such as Christianity and people who make hilarious statements like this:

The Christian God is only ever described in the bible as acting justly.

What is justice? Is justice punishment of wrongdoing?