Feminism and Gaming

[John V]

Or, if you expect women to change their basic tendencies, then you should expect the same of men.

No one is saying otherwise. I've not asked anything of women in this thread except to advise on what can and can't be changed about men.

You said that "fantasy shouldn't contribute to anyone's self-image problems."

Men also have idealized physiques in fantasy, unattainable for about 90% of the male population even with a strict regimen of diet and exorcise (barring the use of illegal muscle-enhancing drugs).

My question (which was a question and not telling women what to think as your straw man asserts)

No straw man. You said that "fantasy shouldn't contribute to anyone's self-image problems."

is how might we change society to duplicate male feelings about such idealizations. Men are not bothered by fantasy images of a shirtless Fabio on the cover of fantasy sold to women nor are we bothered by the unrealistic physiques of male heroes in our fantasy game.

Actually I looked into this briefly yesterday and found that men are affected as well.

Part of the issue is that women are also sold real life images of what they should look like. This is where the distinction between fantasy and real life is important.

Again, fantasy images occur in real life and have real life effects. You say yourself that men get off on looking at such images. There isn't a wall between media images, fantasy or otherwise, and real life.

Alternatively, if fantasy images have no effect on real life, then there's no reason to sex them up.

Let me further add that if your solution is that idealized, unrealistic depictions of male physiques in fantasy are just fine but doing the same for women is unacceptable because, you know, the women folk have much more delicate sensibilities and can't handle what we men can handle, this is a double standard and arguably sexist in its own way.

Nope, I think both sexes should be depicted more realistically, and as noted, research indicates it's both a male and female problem, although I haven't had time to read much on the male angle yet.

And what you're missing is that it's not your place to tell women what should or should not contribute to their self image problems.

Which I have not done.

Yes you have: "And what you keep missing is that fantasy shouldn't contribute to anyone's self-image problems."

For many Christians it is. You may not agree with them but it's easy to see why with anti-sex messages like this in the Bible.

This is not an anti-sex message:

3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time