Eternal punishment is pointless.

[Godscreated]

Justice requires that if someone accepts Christ as their savior and receives eternal reward, then justice requires an eternal punishment for eternally unforgiven sin against a Holy and Righteous God. This means there are no other choices to be given, there is a limit to what can be offered when the requirements are so specific. Seeing now how this is not blackmail, if hell still bothers you I would think you would want to find out truly why.

(Bolding mine, for emphasis)

This implies that god has no freedom to act of his own accord. I cannot imagine a scenario in which god is required to do something because he has no choice, or where he is limited in what he can do.

Yes, He does have freedom and I would never say He did not. However God will not operate outside of who He is, He will not circumvent His righteousness.

He is god, and no other being can force him to do anything he does not wish to do. Any action he takes is good by definition, because god is above all other beings and thus not limited by their morals or standards.

You're right nothing can force God to do what would be outside His will. God doesn't consider others moral standards, it is God that direct his actions and his actions will be within who He is. God can not lie.

God could have resolved the issue of sin any number of ways. The simplest would have been to offer outright forgiveness to those who sought it sincerely. Or to take Adam and Eve's lives as payment for sin and started over. Or even change human ethical and moral laws to absolve them of wrongdoing. There is literally no choice that was not available to god.

Yes there were choices that God could not have made because they would have been outside who He is. As far as human ethical and moral laws, as I said earlier, God does not consider these things they could not stand up to his moral values for man. God being omniscient knew the best plan and chose it, because it would be best to help those who would seek salvation. God doesn't care what we think about his plan, we're very much imperfect. God's plan has to fulfill all the requirements to put sin to an end and only his omniscience would allow this to happen.

You can say that he chose to offer himself/his son as a sacrifice in order to redeem mankind and that is what he chose, and you can say that you find his actions just and perfect. But I don't accept that he had no choice, or was required to take that route, or that his options were limited. And I think his chosen solution is convoluted and does not make much sense, considering all of the other options on the table.

The options on the table that you and I might see are extremely limited because of our limited life span and our limited mental capacity. Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heaven are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. God wouldn't care for our plans for eternity. God probably doesn't care if you and I approve of his plan, it is His and because He's omniscient He chose the plan best for man and would uphold his righteousness and sovereignty.

GC

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I can do the same to all you say, doesn't make you judgmental in all you say, and the same applies to me, and the one who can't understand this is truly the hypocrite.

I didn't assert that everything you ever said is judgmental, I said you still are a judgmental person.

And, I've shown that to be the case.

You'd certainly do better to simply admit your failings, rather than firstly deny them, then secondly answer using the tu quoque fallacy (and inaccurately, at that). Your religion is the one advising you to not be judgmental, yet here you are making pronouncements about who is and isn't going to Hell.

Hypocrite.

God has given me the right to tell the lost about hell and how you can get there. He's given me the right to tell others about Christ and what He accomplished on your behalf.
There are verses in the scriptures that say we can excommunicate people from the church, that would be a case of judging someone by the scriptures. We are told if people want listen to our witness we should wipe the dust from our feet and leave that place, that requires judgment. We are told to watch for the wolf in sheep's clothing, to determine that we have to make a judgment from scripture. So yes we can judge others as long as we do it within the parameters of the scriptures. I've only said that if people here continue down the same path hell would be their eternal destination.

GC

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Always nice to have a system of justice where the accused is dead either way.

also the dead cant talk back.

You will be alive and standing in front of God and given a chance to explain yourself.

GC

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You couldn't have been resurrected until Christ was. God carries his plan through from beginning to end and If I've an understanding of the last days, well....

GC

But I'm asking why God didn't simply do it in a more efficient way? Is being obtuse and convoluted part of his plan? And why did he start giving a shit whether we were resurrected..after thousands of years of us not being resurrected (since Jesus' death and rise are required, and didn't happen until thousands of years of normal human life and death)? Was he that hard up for praise?

Read Isaiah 55: 8-9. He chose the way that would not violate His righteousness and sovereignty, He made the plan that would bring those who sought it, salvation by forgiveness of our sins through Christ. God being omniscient knows all that is needed to be the best plan, our limited minds can not conceive past the moment much less thousands of years. As far as those before Christ and the years that went by, time means nothing to God, an eternal being doesn't need time nor requires it.

GC

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You say I want answer your questions, then you say I'm saying to much, then you say I'm preaching, confused you are. As far as I know I've answered your questions.

I don't think so. What is the point now of continuing to be here to fight? And, yes, your interactions with some of the atheists here are not friendly ones. Fighting words are being exchanged on both sides. So they are called fights.

It is clear to me that you are just serving your own ego now. My suggestion is to just forget about this forum (for preaching purposes) and find somewhere else where your message will be more welcome. But you seem more interested in winning rather than in spreading the good news.

And, by the way, you are definitely preaching. Making baseless claims yet asserting them as truths without bothering to reveal supporting evidence is what I would consider to be preaching.

What you consider preaching and what the forum rules call preaching are two different things, I've been here 4 1/2 years and haven't changed the way I answer. Now please present them fight'n words, from both sides and include who said them. Support what you've said, that's your moto right.

GC

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What is this... the fourth or fifth theist that claims to know what a "True Christian " is?

That's how scripture tells it, read the NT and satisfy yourself. I can tell a good baseball player by the way he plays the game, A lot of the time I can tell if a person is a Christian or not by the way they live their lives.

GC

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What is this... the fourth or fifth theist that claims to know what a "True Christian " is?

"anyone who doesn't belong to my particular version of my religion isn't a true Christian. And if someone from my religious brand commits a crime he was never a true believer . . ."

I'll chalk up another wrong on your side of the board.

GC

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He had a right to be ticked off, sin had entered His perfect creation because man misused the gift of free will.

GC

Was he surprised?

What makes you ask that question, we both know what the scriptures say.

GC