The problem with prayer

[Eilonnwy]

Leo, I cannot see the connection between 'sincere' motives (although maybe misguided), and 'ego' in the sense of arrogance. I really can't. It is possible to pray with bad motives, just as it is possible to give a speech filled with hate-filled poison. I am speaking of prayer in the general sense. Whatever is in your heart, will come out in your actions and speech (and prayers). If it's selfish to want your loved one to recover then good. Selfishness in this sense is part of the survival instinct that propels us to act in ways to survive. Prayer is just an expression of that hope and need to survive, or get better or resolve an issue. There are arrogant pray-ers, no doubt but I maintain the act of praying is not arrogant or as I can see it egotistical. My way of viewing this is very different to yours.

I pretty much agree with your sentiments, accept I can see where sincere wishes of doing good and helping people and arrogance can connect. The fact that people may not stop to consider who they praying for, whether that person appreciates if they're being praying for is arrogant regardless of whether the person would appreciate it or not.

Just remember, I really don't think people who pray are bad people, I don't think that they are motivated by only selfish means, I realize that prayer is helpful to people in a meditative and wishful thinking/hoping sort of way. I realize they feel they are doing good and don't view it as selfish or arrogant. I'm not going to say people shouldn't pray. If they want to, it's their right.

But at the end of the day, I'm just not going to hold prayer up on a pedestal and leave it free from criticism just because it makes people feel good and is general done with hope of doing good. I have problems with it, and I've expressed those opinions, I hope in a clear fashion.

I appreciate your sentiments, CoxRox. I realise you honestly view prayer as a good thing and do it with the best possible intentions. But when you're an atheist everyone is always happy to talk about God and prayer, not just amongst themselves but publicly. A person dies and it gets televised and everyone needs to say "our thoughts and prayers are with the family, etc"and while it sounds nice, well what if the family is atheist, or some religion that wouldn't apprecaite prayers? People are so used to the idea that everyone they meet in this country is probably Christian that they tend not to think, maybe I should just keep it to myself. So while maybe most of the people they meet would appreciate the sentiment, the small percentage who don't get overlooked.

Take for instance the National Day of Prayer, not only is it a huge violation of seperation of church and state, but it alienates the citizens of America who don't prayer for whatever reason. Despite being ambiguously named, it's no secret it means a day of prayer to the Abrahamic God, it ignores the many other religions that exist within the country including non-religion. Why does there have to be a national day of prayer? Why can't people who want to pray for the country do so in their own home in private? Instead they have to make a big show of praying to their god. By making it a national event it is completely arrogant, yet I'm sure the intention was just sincerely a good one. It overlooked the many people who would be offended by it just because most people aren't.