Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 13, 2026, 3:49 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal ..
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal ..
(December 18, 2014 at 8:18 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(December 18, 2014 at 6:11 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Does not the continued, demonstrable efficacy of those branches of science that do work count as a good enough basis?
Ready, fire, aim. My point was the that science IS efficacious. It's effectiveness has a reason: final causes are at play. Your explanation for the efficacy of science is boils down to 'it works because it works', i.e. circular reasoning.

So, I point out that simply asserting something by fiat is not an effective method of argumentation, and you respond by... asserting the existence of final causes for certain things by fiat. Undecided

And... yes, science works because it works. It's a methodology, that's sort of the only way you can measure the efficacy of a methodology; it sets out to accomplish something, and if it succeeds in doing that then it's effective, and if it fails, it does not. Science seeks to make accurate predictions and models of reality, it does so when executed correctly, therefore it is effective. That efficacy does not require an explanation beyond the limited contextual framework of its existence, because the yardstick for "effectiveness" is always relative to the objectives of the thing in question, which in terms of science are man made, and not magical.

I know you love to make completely unsupported demands that every last little thing be justified, ultimately, by some special magic argument from ignorance spell, but sometimes A is just A, because A is defined by humans to mean A. Science is effective because humans determine what science is used for, and it is good at accomplishing that goal. Final causes are not required, nor even relevant.

And not supported. Let's not forget that you didn't bother justifying what you said here at all.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 10, 2014 at 8:50 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 10, 2014 at 9:05 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Exian - December 10, 2014 at 8:56 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 10, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 10, 2014 at 9:13 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Jenny A - December 10, 2014 at 11:40 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 10, 2014 at 9:17 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 15, 2014 at 5:52 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 15, 2014 at 10:13 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 10, 2014 at 9:21 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 11, 2014 at 5:45 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 11, 2014 at 9:34 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 11, 2014 at 9:38 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 11, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 11, 2014 at 9:56 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 11, 2014 at 9:42 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 11, 2014 at 9:49 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 11, 2014 at 9:46 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 14, 2014 at 11:42 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 14, 2014 at 12:12 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 14, 2014 at 11:55 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 14, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 14, 2014 at 4:48 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 14, 2014 at 5:21 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 15, 2014 at 8:58 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 15, 2014 at 9:18 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 15, 2014 at 10:01 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 15, 2014 at 11:24 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 15, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 6:53 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 16, 2014 at 7:27 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Tonus - December 16, 2014 at 8:22 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Paraselene - December 16, 2014 at 6:07 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 16, 2014 at 9:38 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 17, 2014 at 3:45 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Crossless1 - December 16, 2014 at 6:14 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 16, 2014 at 9:52 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 16, 2014 at 7:30 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by IATIA - December 16, 2014 at 8:19 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 16, 2014 at 10:03 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 16, 2014 at 10:11 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Crossless1 - December 17, 2014 at 11:56 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 3:37 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 4:27 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 4:46 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 17, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 18, 2014 at 8:57 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 18, 2014 at 9:07 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 18, 2014 at 9:16 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by IATIA - December 18, 2014 at 9:35 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 18, 2014 at 9:51 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Tonus - December 19, 2014 at 6:38 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 18, 2014 at 12:53 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by KevinM1 - December 18, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 11:12 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 12:09 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Tonus - December 18, 2014 at 11:26 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 11:31 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 1:14 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Tonus - December 18, 2014 at 1:40 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by KevinM1 - December 18, 2014 at 2:07 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 1:18 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 18, 2014 at 1:19 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 1:28 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 18, 2014 at 1:44 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 18, 2014 at 2:08 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by IATIA - December 18, 2014 at 2:48 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 18, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 1:53 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 3:06 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 3:08 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 3:20 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by professor - December 18, 2014 at 3:32 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 4:33 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Tonus - December 18, 2014 at 3:40 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 18, 2014 at 6:11 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2014 at 2:13 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by IATIA - December 18, 2014 at 9:48 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Chad32 - December 18, 2014 at 9:55 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 19, 2014 at 2:40 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 19, 2014 at 4:25 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 19, 2014 at 5:22 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 19, 2014 at 10:11 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by dyresand - December 19, 2014 at 10:52 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Strider - December 19, 2014 at 10:55 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Godschild - December 19, 2014 at 2:02 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2014 at 2:20 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Strider - December 19, 2014 at 2:39 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Esquilax - December 19, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by KevinM1 - December 19, 2014 at 2:42 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by abaris - December 19, 2014 at 2:50 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 19, 2014 at 6:43 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by robvalue - December 19, 2014 at 11:27 am
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by Brakeman - December 19, 2014 at 1:35 pm
RE: Since Heaven and Hell are not temporal .. - by IATIA - December 19, 2014 at 4:48 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Two verses on hell from the bible purplepurpose 7 2045 June 15, 2023 at 10:25 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  Jerry Falwell Jnr "not a christian" and wanted to prove himself to not be like Snr Pat Mustard 18 5550 November 1, 2022 at 8:57 pm
Last Post: Paraselene
  7th grader commits suicide after being told that he is going to Hell. Jehanne 12 4011 December 9, 2021 at 9:45 pm
Last Post: Ferrocyanide
  The concept of Hell T.J. 11 3045 November 12, 2021 at 9:49 pm
Last Post: brewer
  Is there free will in Heaven? zwanzig 54 14411 April 12, 2021 at 1:35 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  If you knew for certain that you were going to Hell zwanzig 32 8515 March 9, 2021 at 8:48 pm
Last Post: Ryantology
  GoodFight310 and the visions of Hell Ah_Hyug 0 1304 September 20, 2020 at 10:59 pm
Last Post: Ah_Hyug
  Who goes to hell - as far as those pious Bible Christians are concerned? Dundee 71 19044 June 14, 2020 at 12:41 pm
Last Post: Paleophyte
  Who the Hell does God think he is?? Drich 13 4479 March 6, 2020 at 12:15 pm
Last Post: Gawdzilla Sama
  Telling children that they are going to hell is abusive? Fake Messiah 104 29978 February 9, 2020 at 2:46 am
Last Post: Fake Messiah



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)