All Hail the Second Amendment

[Vosur]

Actually it is possible in Germany. Valid reasons for acquiring a firearm in Germany include hunting, target shooting, collection, personal protection (in exceptional circumstances) and security.

I didn't say that it's not possible to acquire a gun in Germany - I said it's not possible for anyone (as opposed to only security personnel and endangered people) to acquire one for self-defense.

How are those numbers relevant? Fucking hell, Vosur. Those numbers are what this conversation is about. The availability of firearms and the ability to use those firearms to hurt and kill people.

Despite your protests to the contrary the laws governing the acquisition and possession of firearms in Canada and Germany are very similar. Civilians in neither country have a given right to own firearms. Despite this it is possible for people in both countries to legally acquire and keep them. Both countries require a license to do so. Individuals in both countries must undergo a background check to obtain a license. I'm not sure about Germany, but in Canada you have to supply a third party reference in order to obtain a firearms license. Both countries have restrictions on the types and number of firearms as well as the type and amount of ammunition gun owners are allowed to have.

Yes there are some differences. In Canada you aren't required to provide a valid reason to possess a firearm. In Germany you are. However the valid reasons in Germany are much the same as the reasons most Canadians would own a gun. Despite this difference Germans still have a higher number of guns per population than Canadians do. So apparently having to provide a valid reason isn't really that much of an impediment to owning a gun in Germany when compared to Canada.

As far as sources go the numbers I have been using come from gunpolicy.org. An Australian site that partners with the World Health Organisation's Global Campaign for Violence Prevention and the United Nations Program of Action on small arms. The site categorizes gun regulations in both Canada and Germany as restrictive.

Yeah, no, those numbers are irrelevant. It's not important how many people are in possession of firearms, it's important who possesses them. If someone acquires a gun for reasons of self-defense, he will obviously be carrying it with himself almost at all times (otherwise, what's the point?). Since civilians in Germany can't get a gun for self-defense, no one other than security personnel (e.g. police and bodyguards) is walking around with them in public (hunters, collectors and people who enjoy target shooting have no reason or permission to do so). If you go through this thread and read all of the incidents that Minimalist has posted, you'll notice how many, if not most of them, could not have happened in Germany since people wouldn't have been able to carry their gun in public. Another common cause is that somebody left his gun in an unsafe place at home where it could get in the hands of, say, children who ended up accidentally shooting someone. In Germany, you are required, by law, to own a secure storing place for your firearms. Go and look through all of the news reports in this thread and tell me how many of these accidents you think would have happened in Germany. I'll wait.

Do you think it's a coincidence that Germany and countries with similar gun laws (protip: Canada's gun laws aren't similar - the absence of self-defense as a valid reason to acquire a firearm makes a huge difference) have a much lower gun crime rate compared to the US and Canada?