WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER...

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Consider for a second that often the most secular, least religious societies also tend to be some of the most prosperous financially and socially, and also the happiest.

You can't be serious.

You of all people should realize communism introduced "state atheism" FIDEL....

Go study Stalinist Russian and see how much of a "utopia" it was.

And here we have a person who hasn't ever studied political science or international relations. Before you post a nonsense reply replete with strawmen perhaps engage that brain of yours first, yes?

First off the bat, secularism =/= atheism. Secularism was a political paradigm introduced to protestant statecraft in 1648 following the treaty of westphalia. Its had nothing to do with atheism and continues to be nothing to do with atheism. Ok? So we've eliminated that as a worthwhile point.

I also never mentioned 'communists' or communist states (DEFINE? What do you mean by community state? Lenninist? Stalinst? Chinese state free enterprise communism? What? Definitions are important when making wide assertions) . I was referring, as made patently clear in the post you've cited, to liberal democratic secular states that employ a separation (but freedom) of religion within their state structures and governmental constitution. Think all of Nothern and western Europe. Nordic states for example consistently score high in surveys that seek to elucidate on how content with life their general population is. They also tend to be very prosperous financially and socially. Compare that to any single theocratic state that you chose and realise just how right I am.

Communist states tend to revel in a cult of personality and political paradigm that elevates an elitist class of political agents to reign supreme over the proletariat. Not once did I mention utopia, although that's ironic because of course every political philosophy and ontological premise is utopian when you evaluate its end game (otherwise what's the point of making one?), and not once did I infer that secular states are also utopian (unless you want to cite me?). Indeed, just to show how incorrect you are from a different angle, consider that not all communist states employed a restriction of religion and religious freedom in their general MO of statecraft. Ever heard of the Socialist Federal RepublicYugoslavia? Tito, despite being a complete arse, broke away from Moscow in terms of religion as he realized that in order to keep some semblance of support for the various state demographics the the religious factions would all need a voice and to allow their congregations to congregate, be they Slavic Orthdox, Carholic or whatever. So maybe take your own advice and read up on 'communism' before casually throwing it out there yes?

Let's consider another point. The enforcmemt of irreligious behaviour by state agents =/= an irreligious society. You cite Russia/USSR. So you'll know that the orthodox church in eastern Europe and the USSR continued to be a very prominent actor under various Russian leaders, often leading a resistance to overbearing authoritarianism from the Kremlin. People didn't lose their religion because the state sanctioned that they do so, proven by the fact that when the iron curtain fell, one of the first things to happen was the proliferation of various churches, orthodox and catholic most prominently, to represent the religiousness of the people that never lost it in the first place.

And two points to clear up before we finish. I have studied communist philosophy already. Specifically the ideas of Georges Sorel and the comparative discourse between his writings on violence and the philosophies employed by various Wahhabi sects throughout the middle east over the past century.

And finally, just because my handle is 'Fidel' doesn't mean I'm a communist numbnuts.