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Current time: June 15, 2025, 11:54 am

Poll: Has art jumped the shark after WWI
This poll is closed.
Yes, the old times is where it's at! Give me Rembrandt over Miró any time!
15.00%
3 15.00%
No, modern art has its own justification
60.00%
12 60.00%
I don't care.
25.00%
5 25.00%
Total 20 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Has art jumped the shark after WWI?
#7
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI?
I was a music student in my younger days as was my wife. I focused on classical while she had a broad education in musicals, jazz and various forms of pop.

I remember my History of 20th Century Music class. We never studied George Gershwin or Scott Joplin. No mention of Aaron Copland. Certain not a peep about John Williams! These were all too "pop" for the tastes of the Ivory Tower and the professor obliquely mentioned the phrase "movie music" contemptuously at one point.

Who did we study? Schoenberg, Berg and Webern for starters and it went downhill from there. Frankly, a bunch of names that we pretended were so important for the professor that I probably couldn't recognize today if you told me who they were. Igor Stravinsky did get a mention. Paul Hindemith and his neo-classical style of quartal harmony was one I remember.

At the end of the class, the professor asked us, "where do we go from here?" I didn't say this outloud but I thought, "does it matter? We've locked ourselves away in an ivory tower and the world has moved on without us."

I remember thinking how if I moved outside the building that housed the School of Music on a distant corner of campus and went to any number of schools in other fields, Poly-sci, International Service, Business, Law, Physics, even History, and asked any of the professors "What do you think of Arnold Schoenberg?" the answer probably would have been "I know he's just an action movie star but I liked him in 'The Terminator'." The most educated among us would likely not recognize any of the names I had just spend a semester (maybe two, perhaps) studying and pretending were so important.

I came to later find my wife, who was also a music student, had never heard of Arnold Schoenberg. Her emphasis was in performance, not theory or composition, and she had a more diverse education in many music forms. It only underscores my point.

At the time, I was sure that music history classes would look back on the 20th century and study The Beatles, Elvis, The Rolling Stones, Michael Jackson, Dolly Parton, etc. Classical composers of the 20th century would likely include Gershwin, Joplin, Copland and yes, John Williams.

I felt then as I do now that there was a schism around WWI between the "pop" and "classical" styles of music, one which had never existed prior, with the latter locking itself away in an ivory tower and looking down on the former. The Ivory Tower became obsessed with abstract theory and making theory guide the music instead of the other way around which is how it's supposed to be.
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Messages In This Thread
Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 9:01 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 6, 2015 at 1:05 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 10:00 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 10:05 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 10:12 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by DeistPaladin - January 5, 2015 at 10:17 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 10:32 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 10:52 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 11:12 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Nope - January 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 2:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 12:06 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Nope - January 6, 2015 at 12:18 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 3:59 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 11:00 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 11:04 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 11:08 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Gawdzilla - January 5, 2015 at 11:11 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 11:14 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 11:52 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 12:02 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 6, 2015 at 1:13 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 1:16 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 11:26 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 11:40 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 12:21 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 11:47 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Cato - January 6, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Cato - January 5, 2015 at 12:35 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 5, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 5, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Cato - January 5, 2015 at 5:10 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 2:56 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 3:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 12:10 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 2:08 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 3:21 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 2:57 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Ryantology - January 5, 2015 at 6:35 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 6, 2015 at 1:17 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 1:33 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 11:22 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 3:24 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 3:33 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 5, 2015 at 3:59 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 4:11 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Cato - January 7, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 5, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by c172 - January 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 8:21 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 5, 2015 at 9:05 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 6, 2015 at 12:03 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 6, 2015 at 12:41 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by JuliaL - January 6, 2015 at 1:12 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Whateverist - January 7, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by psychoslice - January 6, 2015 at 12:50 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Nope - January 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 6, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 6, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Nope - January 6, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 12:16 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 12:36 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 12:40 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by downbeatplumb - January 7, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 3:04 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 3:17 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 3:40 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Faith No More - January 7, 2015 at 3:49 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 7, 2015 at 3:57 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 4:50 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 4:52 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 5:07 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Ryantology - January 7, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by abaris - January 7, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by c172 - January 8, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Whateverist - January 7, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 7, 2015 at 7:48 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by ManMachine - January 8, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by thesummerqueen - January 9, 2015 at 12:37 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Whateverist - January 9, 2015 at 7:00 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 9, 2015 at 7:34 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Jenny A - January 10, 2015 at 1:23 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Whateverist - January 10, 2015 at 2:34 am
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by vorlon13 - January 9, 2015 at 6:44 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Alex K - January 9, 2015 at 8:02 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Ravenshire - January 9, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Regina - January 9, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: Has art jumped the shark after WWI? - by Thumpalumpacus - January 10, 2015 at 3:04 am

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