Evidence God Exists: Part II

[Thor]

And yet you gave examples of bats using caves, and bugs living under rocks. Neither caves nor rocks are exclusively used by those or any species.

What about the hydrothermal vents? (I notice you conveniently ignored this example of mine). There are certain creatures that live in the vicinity of deep sea hydrothermal vents. Areas that are toxic to other life forms. Did some "intelligent designer" provide hydrothermal vents for these creatures? Or did these creatures evolve and adapt to live near hydrothermal vents?

And, as I pointed out, man does not EXCLUSIVELY use fire. There are certain plants that need fire to reproduce. Or did you not read that in my earlier post?

I sure did. But this is reaching. Certain plants thrive in situations where there is fire. But these are fires started by man or nature. There are no plants or animals that can start or cultivate fire at will.

So it matters HOW the fire got started? Seems to me that you are the one who is reaching. Some plants use fire to reproduce. This shoots down your contention that man is the only species that uses fire.

So you believe that your loving deity gave us water. Then answer this... did your "loving" deity also give us plague, malaria, influenza, smallpox, diptheria, tuberculosis, internal parasites, ticks, mosquitos, lice and poisonous snakes?

Neither God, nor the bible, nor any theologian has ever claimed that the world God created for us here is perfect. The claim is that heaven is perfect. Our world is not heaven.

Where did I say that the world should be perfect? (Although, you would think a perfect being would create a perfect world for his creations...) This is a copout used by creationists to rationalize away realities like killer microbes and poisonous plants. YOU claim that some intelligent being provided water so that we could control fire (never mind that we need the stuff to live...). I pointed out numerous things that make our lives miserable, harm us and kill us. Why would a being that loves us unleash such horrors among us? Would you put your child into a room full of poisonous snakes?

It's funny how atheists can use the examples you just gave as signs there's no God, and yet I'm not afforded the same consideration when I use equivalent examples that point towards intelligent design.

You can use whatever examples you want. We will then laugh at them and present counter-examples which demonstrate the "intelligent design" concept to be a crock. Such as the things I listed above.

Have you ever seen anyone try to put out a burning oil well with water? IT DOESN'T WORK!

Oil and grease fires happen as a result of man-made situations. The elements of oil and grease are added by humans.

So there has NEVER been an underground oil seepage that has been ignited by lightning?

So of course the rules are modified, and other means need to be employed to extinguish these fires.

So your deity has "different rules" depending on how the fire came about?

HONK! HONK! HONK!

There goes my rationalization meter again...

That's like saying apples taste good, and someone else saying, "Have you ever eaten an apple with vinegar on it? It doesn't taste so good."

This makes no sense whatsoever...

Fire, in its basic form, which is how God provided it to us,

I say that fire was provided to us by the Keebler elves so we can bake yummy cookies. And I have just as much evidence for that claim as you have for yours.

is best controlled by water.

No, fire is BEST controlled by denying it oxygen. That puts it out immediately and with the least amount of damage. If your house was on fire, which would you rather have the fire department do? Pump thousands of gallons of water on and in your house? Or immediately shut off the fire's oxygen supply?

And with such fire, smoke is a built-in warning system.

Still insisting that your retarded deity gave us a "warning system" that kills thousands of people every year, huh?

House and building fires involve man-made elements, starting with the house and the building.

And what does this have to do with anything?

What usually kills people in a fire? IT'S NOT THE FIRE! It is smoke inhalation!

You and others have been jumping thousands and even millions of years ahead and assuming I meant structural fires in civilized environments. My example is of fire in its basic form, as it was provided to us.

So this "warning system" worked great thousands of years ago, but not so much in a modern environment? Then why didn't this genius of a "designer" change the properties of fire so that it would be less likely to kill us as civilization developed? I would think that by now we should have FIRE version 3.6 (or something similar).

...or situations in which people have been trapped or foolishly remained indoors too long, etc.

"Foolishly remained indoors"? Like when they're SLEEPING?

I did include the words "trapped" and "etc." in my sentence. But of course to discredit me you need to make it sound like I meant that people only remain indoors foolishly.

I don't need to twist your words to discredit you. The mere suggestion that smoke is a "warning system" given to us by some "intelligent designer" discredits you without any input from me. This most brilliant of beings couldn't come up with a better fire alarm than the emission of toxic gases?

People do sometimes remain indoors foolishly.

And this is obviously an offense that merits the death penalty....

They've been known to hide in closets, under the bed, etc. In London, there was a restaurant fire, and though the establishment started filling up with smoke, everyone stayed in the restaurant because they were too embarrassed to stand up and leave. They all died of smoke inhalation. So you see, my statement was accurate. There are people who foolishly stay indoors during a fire.

And yet, this does nothing to further your contention that fire was provided to us by some superintelligent being.

You described man-made scenarios (oil and grease fires), so I was adding masks and survival techniques, also man-made.

I see... So your argument makes sense only in the scenario of an oil or grease fire....

...But why doesn't your loving deity simply tell us what plants will cure what diseases? Why do we have to take many years of research to develop something that he could point out to us in a second?...

Because we're not in heaven. Things are not perfect.

HONK! HONK! HONK!

People, including Christians, must experience trials and tribulations while in this world.

HONK! HONK! HONK!

Christ himself was poor and died violently.

There is no evidence that "Jesus" ever lived.

So the examples you've been using to try to invalidate God are meaningless.

To someone who has been thoroughly indoctrinated to this crap, nothing will "invalidate God". Just as, hundreds of years ago, nothing could convince people that witches didn't exist.

There's no reason why shrimp should be so delicious when eaten by man. You think "God" made them specifically for us to eat?

Not a good analogy, and here's why: If a believer used the taste of shrimp as a sign of intelligent design, atheists would immediately counter it by saying our palate was develop through years of evolution.

What? Our palate developed a taste for shrimp through EVOLUTION? That would indeed be a ridiculous argument.

But, as you know, it has taken plants and animals millions of years to evolve into what they are today.

The banana (and many other plants) has been selectively cultivated to appear as it does today in the space of just a few hundred years.

Which means the banana started developing an antioxidant which helps prevent and treat certain diseases that didn't even exist way back then (eg. cancer).

If the disease didn't exist "way back then", what would be the point in having a plant with the capacity to prevent or cure it?

As an evolutionary mechanism, why did the banana develop this antioxidant?

I have no idea. (And neither do you.) But I do know that it had nothing to do with an invisible man living in the sky.

...That's the problem with atheists. They want to know everything right now, despite the fact we've been told and it has been written that certain mysteries will be revealed to us later.

Oh, gee.... you mean I'll find out after I'm dead?

You just might. (Sorry, couldn't resist that one.)

But most likely I won't.