RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 19, 2015 at 12:55 am
(February 19, 2015 at 12:40 am)wiploc Wrote:(February 19, 2015 at 12:29 am)Irrational Wrote: No, no, I didn't ask you what's an alternative for would-be rapist to indulge themselves in instead.
You said rape is wrong no matter what society says ... and your reason was because it affects those who are raped, right? What within the nature of this so-called objective morality dictates that you only consider how the raped feel about this? What is the reason you won't consider the rapist's feelings about rape in spite of you implying that morality is objective (and not subjective)?
Not sure if I'm making sense with my question.
Your question makes sense.
I can't answer for Jaguar, but I can answer for me: We do take other people's feelings into account. Relatives and friends of the victims are also made unhappy by rapes. Women who are afraid to go out at night are made less happy by the rapes. And so on.
You can fold the reactions of the rapists into the moral calculation, but rape's tendency to decrease happiness is still a very strong one.
It's not like it's a near thing. It's not like including the rapists' votes might shift the balance.
Ok, what if there was a society or world where people who are raped do not feel traumatized by it but just happen to be neutral about it? Would rape still be wrong in this case?
In this world, people tend to have their happiness reduced by being raped, yes. But rapists have their happiness increased by raping, right? Who's to say their happiness does not increase more than the raped happiness decreases (along with the loved ones of the raped)? What are the objective measures you are using?
If you put whatever criteria you want to find out whether something is objectively right or wrong, it'll most likely still be ambiguous and people will still feel differently about each term proposed in the criteria (like well-being, happiness, health, etc.).
It's not as simple as stating 1 + 1 = 2 and then going from there. It's way too complicated (and pretty much impossible) to make morality into an objective thing due to differences in subjective experiences regarding feelings of pleasure and such.
One can have very good reasons to believe rape is always wrong, but that depends on one's personal experiences and genetics and so still no objective basis for why rape is objectively wrong.