RE: Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wr...
February 20, 2015 at 12:36 pm
(October 30, 2014 at 8:37 pm)Tsun Tsu Wrote: You are very strongly asserting that one human raping another is always wrong under any circumstance. This would be the equivalent of a universal truth, because it is true regardless of time, location or public opinion. How does your view in any way differ with holding it as universally true that rape is wrong?
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By universally true, I mean it is true regardless of time or location or prevailing opinion. Does the truth that rape is wrong supersede human social acceptance? If so, then the Atheist has to deal with a higher moral code.
As I make my way through this thread, I'm seeing that, in addition to conflating "subjective" with "relative", you are also conflating "objective" with "universal". I believe this to be an honest mistake as well as a common one. To help in our discussion, we need to agree on what terms mean so we can clearly communicate our ideas.
Objective: Not subject to anyone's opinions, beliefs, values or judgment.
Subjective: Subject to someone's opinions, beliefs, values or judgment.
Universal: Not subject to time, place or culture.
Relative: Subject to time, place or culture.
Can we agree on the above definitions?
If so, I would suggest that "higher moral code" has no bearing on whether or not morality is subjective. If God exists and dictates a code of morality, then morality is still subjective, by definition. Since God is a being, It would be a "someone" or qualify as an "anyone" in the above definition. God would be imparting moral values and exercising moral judgment based on Its beliefs.
Key words: "someone", "values", "judgment".
Ergo, morality is subjective.
Now, morality also deals with how we treat our fellow beings. You may have your culture but your freedom ends where it infringes on my life. This has to do with the concept of "sovereignty" of an individual as well as the "social contract".
Actions have consequences. Where the consequences impact others, they are not a matter of personal taste. I like strawberry ice cream. You might like chocolate ice cream. This is subjective and relative. However, you have no right to force feed me chocolate ice cream.
Ergo, morality is not relative but rather universal.
Hope this helps.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
