(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: Do you believe anything that hasn't been proven?
I believe in things I find I have a sufficient reason to believe, that reason most of the time being evidence. Do not try to simplify complex situations into a yes or no question, we already have a guy for that.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: If there exists a supernatural being in a supernatural existence, you're not going to prove it by natural means. If there is a God, then he can show himself to us in an unnatural way.
Here's the thing, though: if there is no sign of the supernatural in the natural world, why would anyone believe it exists?
What do you mean by "unnatural way"? Everything that exists within our universe is natural.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: If he has shown me and I am convinced that he is real, then I'll believe.
That's your personal experience -- it has no value when presented in an argument. It's why you believe there is a god, not why there is a god.
How can you know it's god at all, and not satan, as was the point of this thread? How can you know it's your god and not Zeus?
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: When you look at the world do you just see a bunch of matter that is exists in various forms?
Do not start with the "atheists live in a grim reality" shit. There is nothing "just" about that "bunch of matter". I personally see the universe as absolutely breathtaking. I find that if you let go of the idea it was created by some disembodied mind, you'll see it as infinitely more fascinating.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: When I look I see matter that acts as if somebody put it together and gave it a purpose.
Type one error in cognition: false positive. Detecting patterns where there are none.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: We all view that evidence differently.
The way the natural world looks is not evidence, if that's what you're trying to say.
We all view the evidence the same, but we come to different conclusions. One of them is illogical, Lek.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: As for christianity and the bible, I believe it because I believe that's the way God has led me. I'm not a fundamentalist or one to interpret the scriptures in a strict wooden fashion, but I study them and take from them what the Spirit reveals to me.
I'm afraid you're committing circular reasoning again. You believe the bible because the Holy Spirit that is described in the bible tells you it's true.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: I came into this forum thinking that I could put forth some science and historical sources that would convince an unbeliever that God and christianity are true, but found out I couldn't. At that point of realization, I had to make a choice as to whether or not to dump it all based on that realization. The problem is, I can't do it because whenever I ask God for direction, I become convinced that I'm right. Every time I examine the natural world I live in I become convinced I'm right.
Well, funny thing, whenever I asked god for direction, nothing happened. And I became more and more convinced my doubts were well placed.
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: One other reason that I remain a christian is that I believe God reveals himself in his people.
Which ones? Why do they all disagree on fundamental principles of christianity? In what way does he do that?
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: If you stay in this forum enough, you may come to believe all the talk about how evil christians are and how atheists are actually more moral, which I don't buy. I see christians who are filled with the Spirit and living under a power that I consider beyond natural, serving God and their fellow human beings. I just see it emanating from them.
Excuse me? Haven't we just had a thread about how religious people are good and how religiosity doesn't necessarily mean immorality?
(March 18, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Lek Wrote: That's not what you perceive, but I do, and that's evidence to me. I'm an adult now and I'm trying to experience every challenge to my faith that I can. Don't tell me I only believe because I was raised a christian. Faith evolves. I started out as an anxious catholic and have become a more relaxed "plain" christian and I assume I'll continue to evolve as I search for continuing revelation.
Listen, Lek. You're once stating that you believe for personal reasons. That's perfectly fine, of course, it's none of my business what you privately believe and I have no interest in changing it. But if you want to challenge your faith, as you say, that kind of statement, "I believe because I want to" kills all discussion. Just saying.
