Mind Over Matter?

[The Grand Nudger]

Why isn't all data exchange computation?  It all involves input, processing and output.  What more is there to computation?

For the same reason that an IO port is not a computer...and particularly in that all data exchange -does not- involve processing.  That said, showing an exchange of data and processing is a good start, for me, to showing the potential for "mind". You don't think that an IO port or every exchange of information is computation any more than I do...I assume? Further (just to elaborate) neither of us thinks that all computation (if any) is "mind". That's why "but it's data": falls flat, for me....when it comes to floating minds. That's a start.....but the majority of the cliff is still above us, not behind us. As far as what more there may be to comp...you'll have to be more specific. What do you want the system to do, if anything? Are these exchanges you think of processing mathematical calculations - or are you simply able to -describe them- as such? Is a rock that falls off a cliff and hits the ground processing something...does it have a particular algebraic expression in mind? How, what? I know..mind you, that -we- can describe it that way...but we're irrelevant, in that...what's important is whether or not the rock is -doing- comp. I already think that we're comp systems (so there's no need to refer to our descriptions of things as an argument to that effect)...help me to agree that a falling rock is a comp system as well?

I missed a small bit earlier, not aimed at me (but referent). I don't think that -anything- can do comp (wet toilet paper isn't up to the task).. I think that anything -which satisfies the conditions of a comp system-...can do comp. I can be very creative..in imagining strange and (most likely useless) ways for any given thing to perform.....the list is long, but it doesn't contain "everything" so far as we know. Some materials, and some interactions between materials (otherwise suitable) don't meet the bar (which is why we don;t use them to make comp systems...but also why every pile of dust swept up on the kitchen floor doesn't up and start doing comp, eh?). Your proposition, for example...information doing information to information....there's no mechanism there, there's no explanation of how it satisfies condition - so I can;t comfortably claim that floating information..no reference to a structure or an interaction...can do comp. As I mentioned to emjay, at least with "aether resistors" there's some attempt to make it work. This isn;t to say that I think it couldn't.....I just haven;t seen an explanation of how...meanwhile, it;s fairly simple to explain comp by reference to the material and it;s interactions. Perhaps you can see why I prefer one explanation over the other....one is explanatory..... :wink: I suppose, put simply, theres work to be done which I;ve never seen so much as the first attempt at - and that sets off my heinous BS detector (not that my bs detector is particularly trustworthy..just giving you some insight into process..lol).

You got anything like that?
(I do..for your prop..btw, I just want to see how far off from each other we approach it..lol)