(April 9, 2015 at 5:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:(April 9, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Surgenator Wrote: How about we avoid an ambiguous god and go straight to Allah. Where is proof that Allah exist?
God is manifest through his light. "God is the light of the heavens and the earth". His light is the reality of praise, greatness, goodness. If you can witness the reality of goodness and praise, and see their partial eternal reality, you will see God.
He also gave us knowledge of himself aside from the manifestation of his glory and light in creation that is properly basic.
The reminders to God's Absolute greatness are to remind us of something we inwardly know.
If you are looking for scientific proof you won't find it with me. I do offer some philosophical proofs like the following:
1. Goodness to be objective, cannot be arbitrary.
2. Objective Goodness exists (assumption).
3. If a Creator can decide/create what is goodness, then goodness would be arbitrary. (For example, if it can decide rape is good, then it would be arbitrary)
4. Therefore a Creator cannot create objective goodness.
5. If a Creator cannot create objective goodness, then nothing can, including evolution, as a Creator can create evolution, and anything that would be able to create morality.
6. Therefore objective goodness is eternal.
7. Goodness is not separate from consciousness.
8. Therefore consciousness is eternal.
9. Ultimate goodness is included in definition of objective goodness.
10. Therefore Ultimate goodness exists eternally.
I don't agree that objective goodness exist. As implied in your 7, goodness is a concept that only exist in minds. For an objective goodness to exist, it cannot depend on a mind.
Quote:1. Greatness to be objective, cannot be arbitrary.
2. Objective greatness exists (assumption).
3. If a Creator can decide/create what is great, then greatness would be arbitrary. (For example, if it can decide rape is great, then it would be arbitrary)
4. Therefore a Creator cannot create objective greatness.
5. If a Creator cannot create objective greatness, then nothing can, including evolution, as a Creator can create evolution, and anything that would be able to create morality.
6. Therefore objective greatness is eternal.
7. Ultimate greatness is included in definition of objective greatness.
8. Therefore Ultimate greatness exists eternally.
9. Ultimate greatness is not separate from consciousness.
10. Therefore consciousness is eternal.
Ultimate Greatness is equivalent to 'God'
Again, don't agree with 2. Second, objective greatness is poorly defined because it depends on whose is evaluating what is great. In both of your proofs, your relying on minds yet you want to be objective.
