RE: Mind Over Matter?
April 9, 2015 at 11:41 pm
(This post was last modified: April 10, 2015 at 12:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:Why doesn't all data exchange involve processing?Relay doesn't require processing, just for starters. Or, if you prefer http://lmgtfy.com/?q=processing+definition
Quote: What's the non-arbitrary cut-line between simple "data exchange" and mind-producing "processing"?again, and from above...that there be processing, in a comp mind framework(I'm assuming you're asking from that POV). Even if we have processing.....we'll still be looking for more than a pocket calculator......it would seem.
Quote:It seems to me that you are in danger of producing a circle: i.e. processing is whatever a mind thinks represents a useful exchange of data, and non-processing is whatever a mind does not think represents a useful exchange of data.Processing remains what it always was (and needn't be useful), the question is whether or not mind is processing...comp, whether or not it uses the same principles...eh?
Quote:Yes, that's the point I'm getting at. Saying that mind is computation, but requiring a mind to arbitrate between what kinds of data exchange do or do not represent computation, introduces the problem of mind back into the "solution."Any self monitoring circuit arbitrates precisely this all day long(amusingly...without any knowledge or awareness of that fact-so far as we can tell), regardless of whether or not a mind set it to check for any particular thing. We can't establish that...without using our own minds to check and see what it's doing......but if you have some other way of figuring that out (or anything else), I'm all ears. Of course...theyre much better at it when we design them intentionally to be so...so there's always that. You both seem to think that a picture that you see as "about a mountain" cannot have another meaning...and that because you assigned "about a mountain" as the meaning...with your minds (ostensibly) all interpreters must be minds, all meaning must be your meanings. "Sally had the kids for dinner" can mean many things (or nothing, to a non english-speaker). Just between us...and just like us- to a comp system (like the server this post is housed on) it has meaning, it means "set these memory cells to these states". Just what -is- the problem?
Comp mind...and it crushes me that I've never put it this way before...simply proposes that mind behaves in a logical manner. That it is generated by logical processes. Is there anyone here who thinks that mind is generated by illogical processes or behaves in an illogical manner? It's a very, very general claim, a framework from which to answer...not -the- answer.
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