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About Islam
#54
RE: About Islam
(April 19, 2015 at 12:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Veil 1. 
Clarification from Ahlulbayt(as):
From the 6th Imam, Imam Retha (as): “The Honorable the Exalted God gave distinction to the (prophetic) household over other people in the Wise Book.” Al-Ma’mun asked him, “Where is that in God’s Book?” Al-Retha (as) told him, “Indeed the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘Allah did choose Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people. Offspring, one of the other: And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.’ In another place the Honorable the Exalted God says, ‘Or do they envy those people for what God hath given them of his bounty? So then We had already given the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom/authority.’ He then addressed this effect to the rest of the believers, so he said: O ye who believe Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those who possess the command/authority from you.’ This means those whom God has given them the Book and the Wisdom for which they are envied. Therefore, what is understood from the Honorable the Exalted God’s words, ‘Or do they envy the people for what God hath given them of his grace? So then We had already given the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom./authority’ This refers to obeying the Chosen Pure ones.”, so the authority/kingdom here refers to the obedience owed to them. 
Here are the verses leading to Ulil-Amr and one after that emphasizes to disbelief in the Taghut.


If anyone sincerely reflects it can be seen a portion of the people of the book believed in the false unjust authority and said they are more guided then believers. Then it refers to the fact of whether they have share in authority. Then it states or is it that they envy a specific people for what God has given them out of his grace. This shows the believers they were talking about was particularly these people, and it's these people that they would not give anything to if they were the ones of true authority. It also then shows that these people are like the family of Abraham, who too been given the book, the wisdom, and a great authority, so that they are not justified in envying them, while accepting chosen ones in the past. The great authority was their link of authority to following that of God. Then it emphasizes that those who turned way from the great authority of the family of Ibrahim would be punished. Then it's emphasized those who disbelieve in signs/proofs/guidance of God would be punished  and those who believe rewarded. After reminding to judge people by justice showing one of the dimensions of the authority, it states to Obey God showing the purpose of the great authority of the family of Abraham and then we are told to obey the Messenger and those who possess the the command/authority from us. Then we are told so/therefore if we dispute a thing refer it to God and the Messenger, showing the Ulil-Amr always command towards Quran and Sunnah as that was said to be part of obeying them. The false authority is then reminded after that, that some people say they believe in what has been revealed, but then go the judgement of the Taghut. 

Now the Shia interpretation is clear. As the divine authority of the family of Abraham was emphasized, what was meant by 4:59 that was the divine authority of God in his chosen ones and pure ones.  This is the obvious context if sincerely reflected about.
However the Sunni says this refers to all rulers and their appointed authorities, meaning even unjust rulers have authority and are to be obeyed. This is despite the emphasis on to disbelieve in the Taghut (False Unjust Authority) showing it's not about temporal power as instances of the Taghut have that authority, and this is despite the emphasis of the great authority of the family of Abraham, while some of them interpret that as worldly kingdom given to David or Sulaiman. 

But such interpretation is obviously against rational, the flow of verses, and the majestic meaning. God's obedience was mention first to emphasis obeying the Ulil-Amr is obeying him, and they were put in the same obedience to the Messenger showing it's one type of 
Authority. That and the flow of the verses before and after.

This is veil number 1. The meaning with reflection is clear, and the emphasis on the Taghut is to show what is meant is not temporal authority that even misguided unjust leaders can have but rather as we been commanded to disbelief in the Taghut, that authority has been negated.

The mention of the Jibt is also of significance showing the false misguiding authorities are product of the sorcery cast by dark forces upon the hearts of humanity, making them believe in their authority, hence emphasizing they believe in it, and here it has wisdom being put in, as people blind to the Ulil-Amr has no real explanation aside from the Jibt (sorcery) on the hearts by Satan and his forces. This being places where locks have been put, it's been reminded of, and the knots blown on the hearts, is of these instances, saying the Ulil-Amr are any rulers or their appointees. 

So what.

This only demonstrates your ability to regurgitate what a book says. 

"Don't believe the fakes" is a motif they all use. 

It is a literary device writers of ALL holy books employed back then to suck gullible people like you to fear the questioning of others.

"Mohammed said don't believe them, its a trick"
"Jesus said don't believe them, it's a trick"
"Yahweh said don't believe them, it's a trick"

Now again, those books were written in a tribal era when loyalty to the tribe was mandatory and blind obedience was the social norm. "Don't believe them" , is an appeal to fear. 

There is no evil in being a skeptic. There is no devil causing me to reject your claims. There is just you defending very bad logic and looking for an excuse to cling to those claims.
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Messages In This Thread
About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 2:04 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: About Islam - by Minimalist - April 18, 2015 at 2:32 am
RE: About Islam - by Pizza - April 18, 2015 at 3:01 am
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 2:41 am
RE: About Islam - by Minimalist - April 18, 2015 at 3:04 am
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 3:34 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 4:03 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 4:34 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 4:35 pm
RE: About Islam - by paulpablo - April 18, 2015 at 10:09 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 4:49 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 4:51 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 5:10 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 5:02 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 5:03 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 5:06 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 5:09 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 5:14 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 5:20 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 18, 2015 at 6:03 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 18, 2015 at 6:08 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 6:11 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 7:41 pm
RE: About Islam - by Jenny A - April 18, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 7:47 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 18, 2015 at 8:14 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 9:44 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 8:18 am
RE: About Islam - by The Grand Nudger - April 18, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: About Islam - by Silver - April 18, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 18, 2015 at 10:49 pm
RE: About Islam - by Polaris - April 18, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: About Islam - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 1:19 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 1:41 am
About Islam - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 2:28 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:25 am
RE: About Islam - by ReptilianPeon - April 19, 2015 at 4:35 am
RE: About Islam - by mralstoner - April 19, 2015 at 6:52 am
About Islam - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 7:03 am
RE: About Islam - by mralstoner - April 19, 2015 at 7:16 am
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:17 am
About Islam - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 9:35 am
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 9:45 am
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 10:10 am
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 10:55 am
RE: About Islam - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: About Islam - by Mudhammam - April 19, 2015 at 10:59 am
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 12:03 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 2:07 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 5:00 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm
RE: About Islam - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 2:58 pm
RE: About Islam - by dyresand - April 19, 2015 at 3:01 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 5:05 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 5:12 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 5:18 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 5:18 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 5:32 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 5:52 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: About Islam - by The Grand Nudger - April 19, 2015 at 7:34 pm
RE: About Islam - by Mudhammam - April 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 19, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: About Islam - by Silver - April 19, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 20, 2015 at 8:18 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 20, 2015 at 2:59 am
RE: About Islam - by pocaracas - April 20, 2015 at 4:59 am
RE: About Islam - by nihilistcat - April 20, 2015 at 8:04 am
About Islam - by Etrius - April 21, 2015 at 3:32 pm
RE: About Islam - by MysticKnight - April 21, 2015 at 5:21 pm
RE: About Islam - by Chas - May 1, 2015 at 10:43 am
About Islam - by Etrius - April 21, 2015 at 11:38 pm
RE: About Islam - by Cato - April 21, 2015 at 11:52 pm
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 22, 2015 at 1:32 am
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 22, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 22, 2015 at 8:17 am
RE: About Islam - by TubbyTubby - April 22, 2015 at 10:32 am
RE: About Islam - by robvalue - April 22, 2015 at 10:52 am
RE: About Islam - by Brian37 - April 22, 2015 at 3:46 pm
RE: About Islam - by Goon - April 22, 2015 at 3:16 pm
RE: About Islam - by Mohammed1212 - April 27, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: About Islam - by Regina - May 1, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: About Islam - by downbeatplumb - May 1, 2015 at 11:30 am

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