Commie says hi!

[Red Economist]

Communists and Fascists do share a similar set of collectivist values in common and given both of them are stigmatized by the 'liberal' majority, it's not surprising we can get along from time to time on an individual level. on a larger scale, the differences are too extreme for anything more than a temporary departure from conflict as where we want to go are simply too different. That's especially true regarding, race, eugenics, and imperialism.

Curiously some fascists consider themselves socialists but they have a different conception of the word - Hitler's party was the national-socialist party, in a certain way they were socialist because of the collectivist view. One of the biggest differences is the fact Fascists have an immaterial conception of certain realities like the State and therefore are not materialists.

I have only just recently taken an interest in Fascist ideology, but yeah that does appear to be right. The state is the embodiment of an idea, a collective consciousness or something along those lines. "Socialism" is a word which changes depending on whose using it, the centre-left social democrats mean a peaceful, evolutionary progression by a electoral democracy from a capitalist society to a mixed economy; Leninists, use socialism to refer to the 'lower stage of communism'; liberatarians use it to describe almost anything involving the government.
There was an kind of internal rift between the Nationalist and Socialist wings of the Nazi Party in it's history; this is why Hitler destroyed the SA in the Night of the Long knives because they wanted as 'second revolution' that would be socialist, but this made the Nazi's financial backers deeply uncomfortable.

Since fascism is inherently nationalist, I distinguish between civic and ethnic nationalism - My experiences in politics websites is that most fascists favour eugenics but they differ on how it should be done, and there's basically one category that doesn't care about race (specially if you consider that imperialism leads to interracial relationships and multi-ethnic societies) and another that thinks people should be split into racial groups (while I've met some national-socialists, most don't follow the Hitler philosophy and simply think it's about preserving our origins; in fact I've met black and asian fascists). We've had some problems in a forum I post because of discussing eugenics (for fascists) because while it is free speech there are certain limits, even on internet boards, that may constitute hate speech or incitement to hate - Some people were very close to openly say "X group should be exterminated" while others simply argued that we should promote reproduction between people with more desirable traits.

I mostly disagree with fascists on eugenics and I dislike what I call IQ fetishism - But I don't think all fascists support eugenics.Another curious thing is that despite the stigma and stereotype the people I've met who identified as fascists were not religious but mostly atheists and many hated Christianity simply because it is incompatible with imperialism and allows people to worship someone more than the State. Mussolini was an atheist, he just knew how to use the Catholic church to his advantage. Hitler may have been a Roman Catholic but his program was based on secularist eugenic ideas developed and popularized in countries like the US and others (In fact, I would argue that you cant' justfiy the holocaust with the bible nor Eugenics and racial purity)

There was a Eugenics movement in Russia in the 20's until it was banned in the 30's and I think there were Marxists around that time who supported some kind of Eugenics (j.b.s.Haldane perhaps?). It is likely that with the increased knowledge of genetics, similar ethical and political questions will come up; my personal view is that the most likely source of genocidal behavior could be the environmental movement, as the Malthusian fears of 'over-population' also play into social darwinist views about 'who' constitutes the "surplus population".
The Nazi's were anti-Christian I think because it had some egalitarian interpretations. A certain religiosity and mysticism is probably helpful to a fascist mentality but there is no reason they can't be atheists. I think it is unlikely, they would be materialists though, but actually- your knowledge of the subject is probably better than mine.

do you have an address for one of these forums? I might have a browse just to see what comes up.

I do notice there's some small agreements because both are anti-establishment and against liberal-capitalists and neo-liberalism so there's some common points - And both defend the need for the individual to submit to something greater than himself like the State or the collective group/society.

Red, are you a revolutionary or democratic socialist?

My head is a democratic socialist and is fairly conservative; but my heart is a deep dark shade of red.

Libertarians and Marxists are both opposed to big business because of the power it bestows on a few to exploit the many, but they have different remedies for it; libertarians favor more competition, whilst Marxists- believing that monopoly is partially the result of technology, favor state or social ownership. But collectivism is the main similarity between fascism and communism.

Edit - I believe that everyone who lives in a capitalist free market society (like most people do) have to adapt themselves to the system to develop their skills and survive. Since no one is free from propaganda and limitations of human psychology we all have at least a minimal desire for individualism and consumerism - I just ordered a smartphone and I'm quite happy. Curiously you can notice a difference in mentalities if you talk to people who lived in non liberal societies. My dad lived during the dictatorship and so he had different ideas of how society should work (more towards the common good) despite not wanting to go back.

How would you classify the People's Republic of China considering the capitalist cities like Xangai, etc?

classifying one state or another is 'complicated'; most of the factional tendencies in Marxism are derived from different and competiting interpretations over how 'socialist' this country or this leader was. Personally, I think China is still 'socialist' by virtue of being ruled by a communist party- but that would also include North Korea. I lean towards this view as I think classifying them as anything else is sort of cowardly; they were the product of a communist ideology and therefore communists have a responsibility to recognize their mistakes, even if they may or may not 'technically' be our vision of what such a society would be like. Again, it's also really stupid to throw out so many experiences that we can learn from because we don't like them.

My dad is deeply conservative and a socialist because he thinks it will keep the people happy enough not to 'kick off' and become violent basically. talking politics with him is one of the reasons I'm so deeply into the far left as his ideas don't really work in a contemporary setting; if you want any form of social ownership, you going to have to go against the neo-liberal consensus and that forces you into the margins. That said, I'm still very individualistic and liberal by communist standards, and I wouldn't last long in the Soviet Union; so yeah, I agree there are sharp generational differences.

p.s. My laptop has burnt out, and so I may not be online for a few days. it's creaking along for the moment but only just. If don't get back in touch, that is why.