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The fine tuning argument
#40
RE: The fine tuning argument
(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: That's not why it's less probable, it's becauase there are many more individual concepts that are attributed to god than those necessary for a naturalistic explanation.
A naturalistic explanation would ultimately lead to something which doesn't require anymore explanation because that is the source of explanation for everything else. That's why God doesn't have to be so complex. He could be so simple that it's beyond our grasp to understand His true nature. The simplest thing could also be the greatest and the most mysterious thing you can ever imagine (or can't imagine).

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: god is essentially the oposite of everything we have reason to believe exists: He is a mind without a brain for one, a concept alone that is in stark contradiction with everything we know about mind.
We can't understand the mind of God. Maybe it can exist all by itself without needing a brain like we do.

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: Your feelings have nothing to do with the truth.
It's more than just feelings.
It's a combination of faith + reason + intuition - the evidence only.

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: Look at it this way: God is a mind, a personality, the examples of which we have are the most complex systems in the known universe - The bare minimum requirements for a mind are many times more specific than the requirements for the basic constituents of the universe - This means that a mind is many times more unlikely to exist than energy and law.

Most theists suppose God has a mind of a different nature, the evidence and necessity for which is nil, making the assumption entirely unfounded.
Not just a mind, but God is a law itself for the entire universe, a law for all the other laws of nature.

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: So you think it possible that there exists a god who can't get it right the first time?
I don't know the answer to that, but it's possible that He gave the universe some kind of a self-organizational intelligence to ultimately sort out everything by itself to finally bring out the result which He had planned for. Yet again, maybe He could've done it the first time if He wanted to.

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: We have no reason to think this is the case.
Agreed.

(September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm)theVOID Wrote: An omnipotent being could create life in a far more efficient manner. Do you believe in an inefficient god?

No, I believe in a perfectly efficient God. It's only that the universe if innefficient in certain ways. I don't know why He made it like that. However, God reveals His perfection in the universe by bringing order out of chaos. You'll notice that fine tuning has happened through different levels: First, the laws of physics were fine tuned, then the the laws of chemistry were fine tuned, and then the laws of biology were fine tuned to create life. So, each level of fine-tuning is an unfolding of God's ultimate perfection. Maybe the laws of physics were the most costly to fine-tune since there's a greater number of possible parameters to choose from than the laws of biology and chemistry.
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Messages In This Thread
The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 11, 2010 at 10:58 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Tiberius - September 11, 2010 at 11:16 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by padraic - September 12, 2010 at 12:41 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Minimalist - September 12, 2010 at 2:23 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Skipper - September 12, 2010 at 6:28 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Zen Badger - September 12, 2010 at 2:38 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 12, 2010 at 5:41 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 12, 2010 at 6:56 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by The Omnissiunt One - September 12, 2010 at 7:07 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 12, 2010 at 7:28 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by LastPoet - September 12, 2010 at 7:30 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by downbeatplumb - September 12, 2010 at 7:33 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 12, 2010 at 9:01 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Tiberius - September 12, 2010 at 9:38 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 12, 2010 at 12:00 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by lrh9 - September 12, 2010 at 9:08 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 12, 2010 at 9:09 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by lrh9 - September 12, 2010 at 9:26 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Entropist - September 12, 2010 at 9:17 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by LastPoet - September 12, 2010 at 12:14 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by socratation - September 21, 2010 at 4:49 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by tackattack - September 21, 2010 at 1:32 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by downbeatplumb - September 21, 2010 at 2:05 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Skipper - September 21, 2010 at 5:23 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by theVOID - September 21, 2010 at 8:02 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by theVOID - September 21, 2010 at 4:53 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 21, 2010 at 9:26 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 22, 2010 at 4:27 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 21, 2010 at 9:46 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by socratation - September 23, 2010 at 4:16 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Rayaan - September 23, 2010 at 11:10 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by LastPoet - September 23, 2010 at 12:28 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by theVOID - September 23, 2010 at 5:43 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Rayaan - September 24, 2010 at 12:39 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by theVOID - September 24, 2010 at 12:53 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 23, 2010 at 9:40 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 23, 2010 at 11:36 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Skipper - September 24, 2010 at 5:37 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Rayaan - September 24, 2010 at 5:06 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 24, 2010 at 5:54 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by theVOID - September 27, 2010 at 11:17 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Welsh cake - September 25, 2010 at 4:29 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by downbeatplumb - September 25, 2010 at 8:31 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 5:50 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 26, 2010 at 6:21 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 6:23 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 26, 2010 at 6:35 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 6:42 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Captain Scarlet - September 26, 2010 at 4:51 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 26, 2010 at 6:47 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 6:52 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 26, 2010 at 7:04 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 7:07 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Shinylight - September 26, 2010 at 7:23 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 7:28 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Minimalist - September 26, 2010 at 8:41 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 8:57 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Minimalist - September 26, 2010 at 8:59 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 9:12 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Skipper - September 26, 2010 at 9:41 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by downbeatplumb - September 26, 2010 at 3:03 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Minimalist - September 26, 2010 at 9:16 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by solja247 - September 26, 2010 at 9:53 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Skipper - September 26, 2010 at 10:28 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by The Omnissiunt One - September 26, 2010 at 10:56 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by TheDarkestOfAngels - September 27, 2010 at 2:29 pm
RE: The fine tuning argument - by Minimalist - September 26, 2010 at 10:15 am
RE: The fine tuning argument - by LastPoet - September 26, 2010 at 11:27 am

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