I said on a much earlier (one of my first) thread of mine that I think strong gnostic atheism ("I KNOW there is no God") - requires at least a small amount of faith.
Because faith is belief in the absence of evidence. And there is no evidence (and certainly no known absolute proof, - at least I believe) AGAINST God. Its just there's no evidence OF God. And God's very unparsimonious and he creates a bigger problem than the one he is 'SUPPOSED' to solve.
God is extremely improbable. ALMOST certainly does not exist (as Dawkins says). I do not see how you can KNOW there is no God because he's not disproved.
But I mean, just as the FSM, the IPU and Russell's Teapot is not disproved!
You cannot prove a negative.
So I agree with Adrian when he said it would take at least SOME faith, he thinks, to be a strong GNOSTIC atheist who claims to somehow 'KNOW' there is no God.
So I think that's either the case with Silence; or he is unfamiliar with the definition of Gnostic atheist perhaps?
I can't think of any other alternatives. There may be. But I can't think of any (at least at the moment). I am of course; open to any other suggestions or possibilities, etc.
Silence, to comment on the opener to this thread - I find the story interesting. And I've kind of been an apathetic atheist in the past - I didn't believe in God, but I didn't give a shit really.
I find it interesting that you say you realized there was no God when you thought: "If there's a God, would he want "his people" saying such things? As if I'm some bad habit that can be picked up? Soon after that thought hit me, logic hit me. There is no God. Atheism became more and more appealing, and once I said to myself the aforementioned phrase, "There is no God," it hit me, I'm Atheist."
The thing is - this is no argument AGAINST God's existence. Its not part of the God hypothesis really. Because its only against a good and caring God (if that, he could be really mysterious as 'many' claim. I'm not sure if its really even evidence against a good God. But it MAY be. Its hard to judge I think).
If God is neutral or bad, or 'EVIL' - its no argument against God then.
And because the bible and no holy book (or anything) is evidence towards God. There is no more evidence for a good God than a neutral, bad or very bad God. Because (as far as we know at least) there is no evidence for any God at all. None; zilch.
There is no evidence of an intervening God so perhaps it could be argued that although its almost certain that NO God exists at all - and there is no evidence of ANY God - if there IS a God perhaps its slightly more likely that he, she, or it - is a non-intervening God. Since there's no evidence of miracles or interventions - if there is a God its perhaps a deist God of some kind. Although there's no evidence for that either that almost certainly doesn't exist - perhaps it could be argued to be SLIGHTLY more likely though? (although extremely improbable still).
If God exists therefore - perhaps he, she or it is more likely to be neutral, callous and indifferent, non-intervening than Good, bad or evil.
Although if there is a God its much more likely for it to have evolved - like an alien God - which wouldn't be supernatural at all. And life forms have emotions, and if there is a God and its alien instead of supernatural; I would say that that God, (an alien, EVOLVED God) perhaps would be much more plausible for feelings (perhaps because its an evolved life form for instance, since a supernatural deist God could be some kind of supernatural robot). And perhaps the hypothetical alien, EVOLVED God - could perhaps care and be good but actually not be CAPABLE of intervening - or if it did it would only mess things up. Since it wouldn't REALLY be a God - in the sense it wouldn't be supernatural - so it would be imperfect and not omnipotent, omniscient, etc. So perhaps it wouldn't intervene because it wouldn't be capable or it would just mess things up, etc.
So perhaps it could still have feelings or be a caring 'creator' but it wouldn't be able to intervene or it would know that if it did, perhaps things would be worse because it would be incompetent to do so.
Since this evolved God would only have to start things up - from the very basics. Like creating life in a test-tube kind of thing. I dunno - I'm not an evolved, alien creator and so-called 'God'.
Evf
Because faith is belief in the absence of evidence. And there is no evidence (and certainly no known absolute proof, - at least I believe) AGAINST God. Its just there's no evidence OF God. And God's very unparsimonious and he creates a bigger problem than the one he is 'SUPPOSED' to solve.
God is extremely improbable. ALMOST certainly does not exist (as Dawkins says). I do not see how you can KNOW there is no God because he's not disproved.
But I mean, just as the FSM, the IPU and Russell's Teapot is not disproved!
You cannot prove a negative.
So I agree with Adrian when he said it would take at least SOME faith, he thinks, to be a strong GNOSTIC atheist who claims to somehow 'KNOW' there is no God.
So I think that's either the case with Silence; or he is unfamiliar with the definition of Gnostic atheist perhaps?
I can't think of any other alternatives. There may be. But I can't think of any (at least at the moment). I am of course; open to any other suggestions or possibilities, etc.
Silence, to comment on the opener to this thread - I find the story interesting. And I've kind of been an apathetic atheist in the past - I didn't believe in God, but I didn't give a shit really.
I find it interesting that you say you realized there was no God when you thought: "If there's a God, would he want "his people" saying such things? As if I'm some bad habit that can be picked up? Soon after that thought hit me, logic hit me. There is no God. Atheism became more and more appealing, and once I said to myself the aforementioned phrase, "There is no God," it hit me, I'm Atheist."
The thing is - this is no argument AGAINST God's existence. Its not part of the God hypothesis really. Because its only against a good and caring God (if that, he could be really mysterious as 'many' claim. I'm not sure if its really even evidence against a good God. But it MAY be. Its hard to judge I think).
If God is neutral or bad, or 'EVIL' - its no argument against God then.
And because the bible and no holy book (or anything) is evidence towards God. There is no more evidence for a good God than a neutral, bad or very bad God. Because (as far as we know at least) there is no evidence for any God at all. None; zilch.
There is no evidence of an intervening God so perhaps it could be argued that although its almost certain that NO God exists at all - and there is no evidence of ANY God - if there IS a God perhaps its slightly more likely that he, she, or it - is a non-intervening God. Since there's no evidence of miracles or interventions - if there is a God its perhaps a deist God of some kind. Although there's no evidence for that either that almost certainly doesn't exist - perhaps it could be argued to be SLIGHTLY more likely though? (although extremely improbable still).
If God exists therefore - perhaps he, she or it is more likely to be neutral, callous and indifferent, non-intervening than Good, bad or evil.
Although if there is a God its much more likely for it to have evolved - like an alien God - which wouldn't be supernatural at all. And life forms have emotions, and if there is a God and its alien instead of supernatural; I would say that that God, (an alien, EVOLVED God) perhaps would be much more plausible for feelings (perhaps because its an evolved life form for instance, since a supernatural deist God could be some kind of supernatural robot). And perhaps the hypothetical alien, EVOLVED God - could perhaps care and be good but actually not be CAPABLE of intervening - or if it did it would only mess things up. Since it wouldn't REALLY be a God - in the sense it wouldn't be supernatural - so it would be imperfect and not omnipotent, omniscient, etc. So perhaps it wouldn't intervene because it wouldn't be capable or it would just mess things up, etc.
So perhaps it could still have feelings or be a caring 'creator' but it wouldn't be able to intervene or it would know that if it did, perhaps things would be worse because it would be incompetent to do so.
Since this evolved God would only have to start things up - from the very basics. Like creating life in a test-tube kind of thing. I dunno - I'm not an evolved, alien creator and so-called 'God'.
Evf
