Quick Poll - Do you believe in God?

[Tonus]

I am saying that the evidence and the conclusion must match.
If your conclusion differ from the evidence then your conclusion is crap. 

Evidence and conclusion are two different things.  The evidence can help you reach a conclusion.  You are simply repeating what I said, but in a less intelligible manner.

Why do some more reading when both the consciousness and the mind are just part of the same I.

Because if you do some reading, you'll understand why you are wrong.

You keep on reading your books and i keep on expanding my self with yoga and at the end let us see who got more consciousness.

So you want me to continue to search out additional knowledge while you continue to strengthen the walls of your fortress of ignorance?  I'm happy to keep doing what I do, but why would you deliberately limit yourself that way?

You only say that the mind is a product of the brain so when you say that you probably mean that consciousness and mind are two separate thing.

I already explained this.  You reject common definitions for common words, and this allows you to create a reality where they mean something else.  Not.  My.  Problem.

By the way on 3 June when i write......
......The atheistic idea that the consciousness mind is a product of the brain will
have sooner or later be smashed in pieces......you didn't say that there is a difference between the two that is why i got the idea that you understand that mind and consciousness are the same part of the same thing with the difference that they are just different layer of the same I.

Then I am glad that I got this chance to clarify things, though it seems to be having no effect.  By the way, the understanding that the mind is a function of the brain is not an "atheistic idea."  It does not depend on atheism, it's just a conclusion reached based on evidence provided by experimentation and research.

If you are such an expert in NDEs why don't you explain why so many people see God and not Santa?

Why?  Because we are influenced by our cultural depictions of god and heaven.  We are inundated with images and descriptions of heaven as a bright place in the clouds, of god as a being of almost pure light, of heaven as a place where our dead friends and relatives await us.  For societies with different ideas about god and heaven, their NDEs will reflect those ideas instead.  It's not surprising when long-held cultural icons are exactly what people "see" when they enter a chaotic dream state like an NDE.

PS- I don't have to be an expert in NDEs.  I just need to read the work of people who have done research on the mind.  The information is available if you are willing to step outside of your bubble.

Now is the time for you to read and learn a bit about NDEs.
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/...s_main.htm

That site does not teach anything about NDEs.  It simply catalogs the various experiences.  For comparison, why don't you read and learn a bit about alien encounters:
http://www.ufocasebook.com/currentyeararchives.html

You see Ton, the problem with testing something abstract with something physical is not that easy.

Sure it is.  We see the results of conscious (and subconscious) thought in people all the time, because it's how we interact with one another.  Study the interactions under different conditions and in different environments, and you begin to understand how the mind works.  Study the physical effects on the brain of such mental activity, and you begin to map the mind onto the brain.

Again, these researcher think that by physical means they can understand something spiritual.

They're not studying something spiritual.  They're studying the brain, specifically the mind.

Opsh Ton, sorry for prove you wrong.

So there were two scientists who, ten years apart, felt that they were making progress on a malaria vaccine, and you consider this to be the same as "science said it got rid of malaria"?

You know, I don't think you are consciously misrepresenting things in order to support your beliefs.  I think that you've created a delusion and reinforced it so diligently that your own subconscious mind is misreading and misunderstanding what you read in order to protect your belief system.  You yourself admitted above that you'd rather turn inward for guidance than read books or learn from others.  You've placed yourself in a bubble that you constantly reinforce by shaping what you read to support you, even if it means twisting it into a different meaning.  It's a fascinating example of how you can train your subconscious to trap you within your beliefs.  An unhealthy example, to be sure.  But fascinating nonetheless.

So you reckon that all those doctors that declared a patient dead are all impostors?

Nope.  Just mistaken.

Wrong again Ton.
Suppose you are God.

See, this is what I mean.  You constantly ask for evidence for what I say, but everything you said after that line is made up.  You have zero evidence for it.  When you need for something to be true in order to maintain your belief system, you discard the need for evidence and simply accept whatever made-up story works best for you.

Your explanation is made up.  You have no evidence for it.  None.

Your are guessing Ton.

You say this right after a paragraph of completely made-up nonsense that you wrote to support an untenable belief.  But yes, when it comes to the development of artificial intelligence, I am making guesses.  Educated and informed guesses, but guesses nonetheless.

I have been trying to get some philosophical though out of you guys for the last few years but is like to find some gold up in the clouds.

I meant your personal philosophy.  Your problems in the philosophy forum seem to have more to do with your self-serving definition of what constitutes philosophy.

In the meantime i use my precious time to build up the inner self.

You mean to fortify the walls of your bubble.  So much effort for the sole purpose of keeping yourself ignorant.  That's sad.

I am sure you would become very famous.

The things I've been telling you about the mind and the brain are the results of research done by others for more than a century.  None of this is new.  It may seem new to you, but you admit that you spend your time building your inner self at the expense of learning anything from the rest of the world.  Cutting yourself off from knowledge just to keep a delusion going seems self-defeating, but it's your life.