Capitalism - the Ultimate Religion

[Existentialist]

Thanks again TheDarkestofAngels. I'll answer the points in your post in what seems to be a logical order.

As Marx put it, "The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionising the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society."

later...

Capitalism or any economic system doesn't extend to all human relations. It's pertinent to many kinds of human relations but saying that ALL human relations are affected by an economic system is a hyperbole.

Admittedly, Marx referred to the bourgeoisie, so in this case I would have to paraphrase him to make his meaning explicit to the capitalist system itself, but if the meaning of his sentence is taken to include capitalism, basically all you are saying is that you think Karl Marx is guilty of hyperbole. That's fine - you're not the first person to accuse Marx of hyperbole and I'm sure you won't be the last, nevertheless I am grateful for the opportunity to demonstrate our two differing opinions on this forum. And I do disagree with you - I think the words attributed to Marx are very accurate description of the relationship of all of us to both the bourgeoisie and capitalism as a whole - I think capitalism has affected all human relations.

I would suggest that this profound disagreement between us on very deep level is the real reason you are taking issue with my description of capitalism as a religion, your other argument which involves dictionaries is just an attempt to insulate your position from my unashamedly subjectively-arrived at assertions by invoking the dictionary as an iconic oracle of supposed objectivity, which of course it isn't. It's just a guide to the popular usage of the day.

Even if the dictionary were an oracle of objectivity, which I categorically deny it is, the way you've copied and pasted from dictionary.com means that unfortunately you've lost that web page's italics and therefore you have, I suspect inadvertently, though rather conveniently for you, implied that what dictionary.com cites as possible examples are actual definitions! Here's what dictionary.com actually says.



Now with the dictionary quoted correctly, and looking more like the original it's easier to go through it and see how capitalism fits. From what I can see, capitalism, being (in my and Marx's opinion) a system that revolutionises the whole relations of society, ticks the boxes of definitions number 2, 3, 5 (by reference to 2 and 3), and 6. For me it ticks all these boxes because for capitalists (and there are many), capitalism is has an ideological basis and is not just an accidental economic system. Indeed there are strong arguments for capitalism to tick the box of definition number 1 as well since many capitalist supporters would say that capitalism is indeed a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. Yes, really - there are such people around!

Of course, my own arguments do not depend on simply the content of dictionaries. If that were the case, then frankly I think that microprocessors are now so powerful that we could easily program computers to talk to each other and then print out the answers to a lot of major political and ethical arguments without us ever having to think about them. That would be like a bad episode of Star Trek (the original series, not the Next Generation or Voyager obviously). Luckily we don't live in that particular universe. In reality dictionaries can't dictate meanings to us, they can only report approximations to the most popular usage. If dictionaries were the real source of definitions, neologisms would never arise. Dictionaries can only ever be a guide to popular usage. The real definitions of words are to be found in every individual's human experience, beliefs, senses, ideas, emotions and a load of other things. This is why it takes effort for people to understand each other, and they do not always succeed, let alone agree.

Also it appears you have been somewhat selective. Dictionary.com also gives the following definitions from a different dictionary.


So definition number 5 easily fits, and I argued earlier that capital is treated as a God - a supernatural power considered to be divine, so 1 fits to - for me, you of course can disagree, I'm not stopping you.

If I could also mention one other thing. Dictionary.com also cites quotations on the same web page to aid the understanding of usage even further. Here's one that cites two things that are different as being the same. Is this assinine too?



To round off, it is not because capitalism is merely "important" in people's lives that I define it as a religion, it is because it is revolutionary in every aspect of their lives. I do not rely on dictionary definitions to make my mind up what words mean because I think the way words are used is vastly more personal than that, however as it happens, I can easily make capitalism fit the dictionary definitions you have cited. Just because two dictionary definitions look different does not mean that they do not overlap or merge in meaning. In any event a concept like capitalism cannot be adequately defined by a dictionary which can only provide a rough guide to popular usage, not legislate against new usages. That's why people write books about capitalism - at least in part, to define it better. Same with religion.

Obviously I don't present this reply to your post as an isolated defence of my opinion that capitalism is a religion. I also offer my other posts citing Max Weber and Walter Benjamin, which I'd also invite you to comment on. I think, all in all, I am in reasonably respectable company in my views.