RE: possible origins of islam (higher criticism scholars/ history nuts welcome)
June 28, 2015 at 7:28 am
(This post was last modified: June 28, 2015 at 7:37 am by ReptilianPeon.)
To bring this thread back on topic, the Quran has a couple of interesting verses. Well I say a couple but I've found a third interesting verse.
Quran 3:96 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:
Quran 2:127 And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
So the claim is Bakka is where the Kaaba is a allegedly Bakkah is a name for Mecca and Abraham went to the place where Mecca is today. So basically, Abraham traveled many hundreds of miles to the southern Near East to build a strange structure and people have gone for pilgrimage there ever since. There's so much wrong with this I don't know where ti begin. Allah is making Abraham do crazy things again, because apparently asking him to kill his own son wasn't enough.
There is zero evidence for people have gone to the Kaaba since the time of Abraham, whenever that was. The Kaaba didn't exist until shortly before the time of Muhammad. Muhammad apparently reclaimed the Kaaba from the Pagans because at an unspecified time between the lives of Abraham and Muhammad Pagans began to use the Kaaba for their own nefarious purposes.
You have to be a special kind of stupid to think that Bakkah from the Bible is Mecca. For a start, there a place called Bakkah on Israel's northern frontier of course (Bekaa Valley) which is of course a more plausible candidate than a distant city in the middle of, quite literally, nowhere. Sure, Mecca is in as valley - but there are no Balsam trees and there is no proof of Abraham having built the Kaaba.
This idea that Mecca was somehow this major hub of civilization is ridiculous. It's in the middle of the desert, far, far away from anything important to the people of Ancient Times, such the ocean/sea or rivers. So I will reiterate my previous link about the changing direction of the Qibla: http://nabataea.net/joke.html
Interestingly, the religion of Abraham is said to be Hanif, not a Jew, and all of the other so-called prophets before Muhammad were Hanif. I guess the texts of the Hanif religion are those uncorrupted versions of the Old and New Testament (that supposedly agree with the Quran), which Muhammadans love yell about, but have somehow been lost without any evidence that they every actually existed. Convenient that - it sounds as if such texts never actually existed. I don't want to get into a discussion about the accuracy of the Bible here but there is zero evidence that any Judeo-Christian text was ever in agreement with the Quran.
Prior to Muhammad's religion the term "Hanif" is non-existent. I don't see any evidence for such as religion other than the list of names we find in the Muhammadan texts. Obviously some people will attempt twist history for their own agenda.
Quran 3:95 Say: "Allah speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."
Quran 3:95 mentions the "religion of Abraham" but doesn't say what exactly this religion is. The Tafsir writers have therefore assumed the religion of Abraham. Al-Jalalayn claims Abraham was Hanif but provides no positive evidence. Ibn ‘Abbâs simply asserts that Abraham was neither Jewish or Christian and does not elaborate further on his religion.
http://www.quranx.com/Tafsirs/3.95
Quran 3:96 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:
Quran 2:127 And remember Abraham and Isma'il raised the foundations of the House (With this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing.
So the claim is Bakka is where the Kaaba is a allegedly Bakkah is a name for Mecca and Abraham went to the place where Mecca is today. So basically, Abraham traveled many hundreds of miles to the southern Near East to build a strange structure and people have gone for pilgrimage there ever since. There's so much wrong with this I don't know where ti begin. Allah is making Abraham do crazy things again, because apparently asking him to kill his own son wasn't enough.
There is zero evidence for people have gone to the Kaaba since the time of Abraham, whenever that was. The Kaaba didn't exist until shortly before the time of Muhammad. Muhammad apparently reclaimed the Kaaba from the Pagans because at an unspecified time between the lives of Abraham and Muhammad Pagans began to use the Kaaba for their own nefarious purposes.
You have to be a special kind of stupid to think that Bakkah from the Bible is Mecca. For a start, there a place called Bakkah on Israel's northern frontier of course (Bekaa Valley) which is of course a more plausible candidate than a distant city in the middle of, quite literally, nowhere. Sure, Mecca is in as valley - but there are no Balsam trees and there is no proof of Abraham having built the Kaaba.
This idea that Mecca was somehow this major hub of civilization is ridiculous. It's in the middle of the desert, far, far away from anything important to the people of Ancient Times, such the ocean/sea or rivers. So I will reiterate my previous link about the changing direction of the Qibla: http://nabataea.net/joke.html
Interestingly, the religion of Abraham is said to be Hanif, not a Jew, and all of the other so-called prophets before Muhammad were Hanif. I guess the texts of the Hanif religion are those uncorrupted versions of the Old and New Testament (that supposedly agree with the Quran), which Muhammadans love yell about, but have somehow been lost without any evidence that they every actually existed. Convenient that - it sounds as if such texts never actually existed. I don't want to get into a discussion about the accuracy of the Bible here but there is zero evidence that any Judeo-Christian text was ever in agreement with the Quran.
Prior to Muhammad's religion the term "Hanif" is non-existent. I don't see any evidence for such as religion other than the list of names we find in the Muhammadan texts. Obviously some people will attempt twist history for their own agenda.
Quran 3:95 Say: "Allah speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."
Quran 3:95 mentions the "religion of Abraham" but doesn't say what exactly this religion is. The Tafsir writers have therefore assumed the religion of Abraham. Al-Jalalayn claims Abraham was Hanif but provides no positive evidence. Ibn ‘Abbâs simply asserts that Abraham was neither Jewish or Christian and does not elaborate further on his religion.
http://www.quranx.com/Tafsirs/3.95
