The origins of Mesopotamian monotheism.

[Brian37]

The more I learn about Egyptian mythology, and Akhenaten, and knowing the close proximity it had to the "Fertile Crescent" or "Mesopotamia", the more I am convinced that the later polytheism of the Canaanites and thus monotheism of Abraham got their inspiration from the ancient Egyptians.

Akhenaten was the famous Pharaoh who bucked the polytheism and insisted that the kingdom worship only one God, Ra the Sun God. And other themes such as "the book of the dead" and "Madonna and child" and "miracles", such as the healing god Thot spitting in the eye of Horus to cure his blindness, have their origins in Egyptian polytheism long before we see those stories in the OT or bible. Even the ancient Egyptians had their concept of a "trinity" in Ra, Osiris with the savior son god Horus sitting at the right hand of Osiris sitting in judgment of humanity.

Many would argue that there is no direct connection between those mythologies. But it can be quite easy because of the proximity of the regions being so close, that travelers could exchange stories without leaving a record of having done such, thus a trope motif bleed into a newer interpretation and thus a seemingly different religion. 

Much the same way the flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh while not 40 days of rain, still was a story about a hero saving a small group of his family and livestock from a seemingly global catastrophic flood. Just like the Code of Hammurabi mentions the same "Eye for an eye" motif of the OT.

[The Grand Nudger]

Monolatry isn't the inheritance of a single person or ideological system.

[fredd bear]

Monolatry isn't the inheritance of a single person or ideological system.

Just so.

Neither does correlation prove causation. Studies of mythology often show similarities of figures and of themes.  This could simply be  because of the way human beings think. Or perhaps verification of  Jungian archetypes.

The notion of a link between Akhenaten  and Moses/monotheism has been around for decades. It is not part of mainstream thought on the subject.

Some years ago, there was a crackpot fringe book and I think a documentary making claims of causation between; Mithras and Jesus, and Isis and the virgin Mary., among other things, which I forget. The claims of similarities were factually incorrect, and the conclusions unsupported by the evidence. 

Pretty sure there is still a LOT of information online about the issues raised. 

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Carl Jung understood archetypes as universal, archaic patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct.[1] They are inherited potentials which are actualized when they enter consciousness as images or manifest in behavior on interaction with the outside world.[2] They are autonomous and hidden forms which are transformed once they enter consciousness and are given particular expression by individuals and their cultures. In Jungian psychology, archetypes are highly developed elements of the collective unconscious. The existence of archetypes can only be deduced indirectly by using story, art, myths, religions, or dreams.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes


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For study in the broad area of Hebrew monotheism and the Exodus, I recommend the book cited below:

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, a book published in 2001, discusses the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins and content of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

[Drich]

The more I learn about Egyptian mythology, and Akhenaten, and knowing the close proximity it had to the "Fertile Crescent" or "Mesopotamia", the more I am convinced that the later polytheism of the Canaanites and thus monotheism of Abraham got their inspiration from the ancient Egyptians.

Akhenaten was the famous Pharaoh who bucked the polytheism and insisted that the kingdom worship only one God, Ra the Sun God. And other themes such as "the book of the dead" and "Madonna and child" and "miracles", such as the healing god Thot spitting in the eye of Horus to cure his blindness, have their origins in Egyptian polytheism long before we see those stories in the OT or bible. Even the ancient Egyptians had their concept of a "trinity" in Ra, Osiris with the savior son god Horus sitting at the right hand of Osiris sitting in judgment of humanity.

Many would argue that there is no direct connection between those mythologies. But it can be quite easy because of the proximity of the regions being so close, that travelers could exchange stories without leaving a record of having done such, thus a trope motif bleed into a newer interpretation and thus a seemingly different religion. 

Much the same way the flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh while not 40 days of rain, still was a story about a hero saving a small group of his family and livestock from a seemingly global catastrophic flood. Just like the Code of Hammurabi mentions the same "Eye for an eye" motif of the OT.

 

So where is the diode in this circuit? what in your mind keeps the narritive flowing the way you describe it, and not allow the narritive back feed the whole circuit you just set up?

Meaning what one way plot devise are you using that has egypt influence the jews and not the semitic transplants influencing the egyptians? (remember back then they where egyptians by birth right and not jews.) 

It would be like saying all white caucasian american have influenced or 'white washed' all other races that have come to america to adopt an american culture...  Rather than admitting that american culture was deeply impacted by all the different cultures that intermixes with it. otherwise white america would still be speaking with the same lame european accents their fore fathers used!

What makes your story a egypt influenced the jews only and not the jews influenced the egyptians.. keeping in mind there were no jews till after the 40 years which was after the mass exodus. from a historical stand point it was light skinned egyptians with semitic heritage against native darker skinned egyptians, and if the bible is right the semitic egyptians would have outnumbered the native egyptians 2:1 at one point which would mean their primary beliefs of egypt would be that of the semitic 1/2 of egypt, just like the bible says.

you lost or do you get what I am saying?

[Brian37]

The more I learn about Egyptian mythology, and Akhenaten, and knowing the close proximity it had to the "Fertile Crescent" or "Mesopotamia", the more I am convinced that the later polytheism of the Canaanites and thus monotheism of Abraham got their inspiration from the ancient Egyptians.

Akhenaten was the famous Pharaoh who bucked the polytheism and insisted that the kingdom worship only one God, Ra the Sun God. And other themes such as "the book of the dead" and "Madonna and child" and "miracles", such as the healing god Thot spitting in the eye of Horus to cure his blindness, have their origins in Egyptian polytheism long before we see those stories in the OT or bible. Even the ancient Egyptians had their concept of a "trinity" in Ra, Osiris with the savior son god Horus sitting at the right hand of Osiris sitting in judgment of humanity.

Many would argue that there is no direct connection between those mythologies. But it can be quite easy because of the proximity of the regions being so close, that travelers could exchange stories without leaving a record of having done such, thus a trope motif bleed into a newer interpretation and thus a seemingly different religion. 

Much the same way the flood in the Epic Of Gilgamesh while not 40 days of rain, still was a story about a hero saving a small group of his family and livestock from a seemingly global catastrophic flood. Just like the Code of Hammurabi mentions the same "Eye for an eye" motif of the OT.

 

So where is the diode in this circuit? what in your mind keeps the narritive flowing the way you describe it, and not allow the narritive back feed the whole circuit you just set up?

Meaning what one way plot devise are you using that has egypt influence the jews and not the semitic transplants influencing the egyptians? (remember back then they where egyptians by birth right and not jews.) 

It would be like saying all white caucasian american have influenced or 'white washed' all other races that have come to america to adopt an american culture...  Rather than admitting that american culture was deeply impacted by all the different cultures that intermixes with it. otherwise white america would still be speaking with the same lame european accents their fore fathers used!

What makes your story a egypt influenced the jews only and not the jews influenced the egyptians.. keeping in mind there were no jews till after the 40 years which was after the mass exodus. from a historical stand point it was light skinned egyptians with semitic heritage against native darker skinned egyptians, and if the bible is right the semitic egyptians would have outnumbered the native egyptians 2:1 at one point which would mean their primary beliefs of egypt would be that of the semitic 1/2 of egypt, just like the bible says.

you lost or do you get what I am saying?

The early Hebrews were never slaves under the Egyptians. There is no evidence of a mass exodus by Jews from Egypt.

The fact that the OT mentions such a myth, says to me the early Hebrews, which were merely a splinter sect of the Canaanites were aware of the Egyptian mythology, and creating a underdog story to compete with, and eventually defeat the old Egyptian mythology.

[Drich]

 

So where is the diode in this circuit? what in your mind keeps the narritive flowing the way you describe it, and not allow the narritive back feed the whole circuit you just set up?

Meaning what one way plot devise are you using that has egypt influence the jews and not the semitic transplants influencing the egyptians? (remember back then they where egyptians by birth right and not jews.) 

It would be like saying all white caucasian american have influenced or 'white washed' all other races that have come to america to adopt an american culture...  Rather than admitting that american culture was deeply impacted by all the different cultures that intermixes with it. otherwise white america would still be speaking with the same lame european accents their fore fathers used!

What makes your story a egypt influenced the jews only and not the jews influenced the egyptians.. keeping in mind there were no jews till after the 40 years which was after the mass exodus. from a historical stand point it was light skinned egyptians with semitic heritage against native darker skinned egyptians, and if the bible is right the semitic egyptians would have outnumbered the native egyptians 2:1 at one point which would mean their primary beliefs of egypt would be that of the semitic 1/2 of egypt, just like the bible says.

you lost or do you get what I am saying?

The early Hebrews were never slaves under the Egyptians. There is no evidence of a mass exodus by Jews from Egypt.

The fact that the OT mentions such a myth, says to me the early Hebrews, which were merely a splinter sect of the Canaanites were aware of the Egyptian mythology, and creating a underdog story to compete with, and eventually defeat the old Egyptian mythology.

so what i just showed you via the biblical text that they where considered to be egyptian citizens up until the exodus. do you not know the story of joseph? for hundred of years God's people where egyptians till pharaoh decided they were getting too many in number and decided to cull all the males born of a certain age. EVEN IF THE JEWS where not slaves it does not mean light skinned semitic blooded egyptian citizens where not considered to be equals to the darker skin people.. Sound familiar? can you draw a parallel yet between skin color of ancient times being a deciding factor and social placement for people in a country in modern times?

Stupid people look for jews or israelites in egypt as slaves during the period from which the pyramids where built.. again they where not jews until the time of the law which was after the exodus they where not israelites till after their conquering of the holy lands. during the time of the pyramids they where egyptian citizens. a low class egyptian citizen, well skilled and educated... kinda like the darker skinned guys at home depot who sit out side looking for side work. They were crapped on by main stream egyptians (dark skinned) but never the less good for building projects as they again where not jews but born and bred egyptian citizens!

[The Grand Nudger]

Magic book is not an account of history.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Reading Drich's posts are always.... uhm..... 'Interesting'.

That's kind of the best word I can think of to describe them

[fredd bear]

At work.

Reading Drich's posts are always.... uhm..... 'Interesting'.

That's kind of the best word I can think of to describe them

Well, it's certainly the most charitable way of describing them. 

[Drich]

 

So where is the diode in this circuit? what in your mind keeps the narritive flowing the way you describe it, and not allow the narritive back feed the whole circuit you just set up?

Meaning what one way plot devise are you using that has egypt influence the jews and not the semitic transplants influencing the egyptians? (remember back then they where egyptians by birth right and not jews.) 

It would be like saying all white caucasian american have influenced or 'white washed' all other races that have come to america to adopt an american culture...  Rather than admitting that american culture was deeply impacted by all the different cultures that intermixes with it. otherwise white america would still be speaking with the same lame european accents their fore fathers used!

What makes your story a egypt influenced the jews only and not the jews influenced the egyptians.. keeping in mind there were no jews till after the 40 years which was after the mass exodus. from a historical stand point it was light skinned egyptians with semitic heritage against native darker skinned egyptians, and if the bible is right the semitic egyptians would have outnumbered the native egyptians 2:1 at one point which would mean their primary beliefs of egypt would be that of the semitic 1/2 of egypt, just like the bible says.

you lost or do you get what I am saying?

The early Hebrews were never slaves under the Egyptians.

The fact that the OT mentions such a myth, says to me the early Hebrews, which were merely a splinter sect of the Canaanites were aware of the Egyptian mythology, and creating a underdog story to compete with, and eventually defeat the old Egyptian mythology.

AGAIN (dumb ass) early Hebrews where not known as Hebrews.. the where Egyptians citizens. They did not become a nation till 40 years after the exodus.
So I ask again looking at history without your jew colored glasses on, what prevents the egyptians who would eventually become the jewish people who live and are counted as the majority from bring their God to egypt and having it be the source of monotheism?
 

There is no evidence of a mass exodus by Jews from Egypt.

that's bull shite.. there where three major dynasties/kingdoms of egypt. The ld kingdom the middle kingdom and the new kingdom, after each kingdom there was a mass exodus where egyptian soceities and cities where abandoned for centuries. where nomads and bandits ruled the lands, until they where united again under the next kingdom. The second kingdom saw a mass migration of the semetic people of the northern delta. This migration is consistent with scripture. It's a long movie but it give a ton of real info sourcing digs that where happening at the time of the movie and continue on today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-x55kIgheA