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RE: My supporting POV on selfishness motivating human moral values
July 1, 2015 at 6:02 pm
(June 28, 2015 at 8:41 pm)smax Wrote: Morality is the product of selfish interests.
When slavery served a selfish interest, it was considered good and moral. When murder served a selfish interest, it was considered good and moral. How many bleeding hearts are there for the over 100 million Native Americans that were enslaved and killed during the invasion and progressive occupation of the land we now know as America? Of course people will say it was wrong, but it's mostly lip service. Clearly very few felt that way while the horrific injustice was taking place during the 15th century and on.
Thanksgiving is LITERALLY the celebration of Native American slaughter.
And, more to the point, there is no evidence that a god of any kind has instilled any consistent sense of moral values, least of all Yahweh. Yahweh allegedly arranged for the 10 commandments but obviously never felt any individual conviction for most of those laws, as he has called for and condoned contradicting actions with several of those commandments.
The reason for this is simple: Yahweh doesn't exist, except in the minds of those who invented him and those who perpetuate that invention. Since he doesn't exist, he needs people to make up his mind for him, which they do all the time. And, the moral values of people are motivated by selfishness, hence, they change with time and circumstances and different environments.
Here's a clear example of the selfish nature of moral values: if your neighbor is a problem for you, or just simply someone you don't like, you will tolerate his existence because any action on your part, which threatens your neighbor's existence, also threatens your social standing and your freedom. However, if you see a spider in your home, you will likely end it's existence yourself or have someone else do it. You kill the spider merely because you don't like it's presence and you don't hesitate to kill it because there are no consequences for such an action. You have no moral conscience about ending the life of this being. You won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
I know that probably seems like a silly example, and that's really the point. Moral values are so clearly associated with selfish motivations that some attempts at moral consideration seem ridiculously insignificant. The truth is, ANYTHING that cannot be traced back to a selfish motivation is not a moral consideration at all. The spider was merely one of literally thousands of other examples that support that theory.
When the land we call America was invaded by Europeans, the "Indians" were widely viewed as vastly inferior and insignificant animals. This is a well documented point of view. They were basically spiders (or an infestation) that needed to be eradicated except for their slight value as rape victims, land guides, slaves, and christian converts/conquests that could be boasted about to European royalty.
This may seem like a cynical point of view, but it's really not. Although our selfish motivations have led to much destruction and suffering, it's also served to further technology, extend the human life span, and enhance the overall quality of human life.
In short, if we can somehow avoid bringing about our own demise, which is something we have a selfish interest in avoiding, it's easy to see an even more prosperous and mutually beneficial future.
You see, that's the real silver lining in our selfish nature, it's to our benefit to create a more widely beneficial existence, and we, as a civilization, are learning that, even if it is at a relatively slow progression.
In time (a long time), I believe we will eliminate religion and the personal god, among many other deterrents to human prosperity, and we will take huge strides toward a far more lengthy and fulfilling existence. Because eventually we will realize the things that stand in the way of a longer, healthier, and more fulfilling life and we will squash those things like a spider.
I have thought that for a long time and I basically agree with your premise, however, The wording could use some 'eloquent finesse', (which is definitely not my forte). There is a tendency here to attack the words/wording first rather than discussing the idea. The words/wording are not more important than the idea, but they are necessary to convey the premise, especially on a forum that is dedicated to 'the attack'.
A christian wants to go to heaven and will do whatever they feel necessary to achieve that end result. There certainly are different levels of "whatever they feel necessary", for some, even to the level of surpassing their survival instinct to "gain immortality". That is not to suggest that only christians are "selfish", but they are such an easy target.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy