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RE: My supporting POV on selfishness motivating human moral values
July 2, 2015 at 2:23 am
(June 28, 2015 at 8:41 pm)smax Wrote: smax Morality is the product of selfish interests.
When slavery served a selfish interest, it was considered good and moral. When murder served a selfish interest, it was considered good and moral. How many bleeding hearts are there for the over 100 million Native Americans that were enslaved and killed during the invasion and progressive occupation of the land we now know as America? Of course people will say it was wrong, but it's mostly lip service. Clearly very few felt that way while the horrific injustice was taking place during the 15th century and on.
Thanksgiving is LITERALLY the celebration of Native American slaughter.
And, more to the point, there is no evidence that a god of any kind has instilled any consistent sense of moral values, least of all Yahweh. Yahweh allegedly arranged for the 10 commandments but obviously never felt any individual conviction for most of those laws, as he has called for and condoned contradicting actions with several of those commandments.
The reason for this is simple: Yahweh doesn't exist, except in the minds of those who invented him and those who perpetuate that invention. Since he doesn't exist, he needs people to make up his mind for him, which they do all the time. And, the moral values of people are motivated by selfishness, hence, they change with time and circumstances and different environments.
Here's a clear example of the selfish nature of moral values: if your neighbor is a problem for you, or just simply someone you don't like, you will tolerate his existence because any action on your part, which threatens your neighbor's existence, also threatens your social standing and your freedom. However, if you see a spider in your home, you will likely end it's existence yourself or have someone else do it. You kill the spider merely because you don't like it's presence and you don't hesitate to kill it because there are no consequences for such an action. You have no moral conscience about ending the life of this being. You won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
I know that probably seems like a silly example, and that's really the point. Moral values are so clearly associated with selfish motivations that some attempts at moral consideration seem ridiculously insignificant. The truth is, ANYTHING that cannot be traced back to a selfish motivation is not a moral consideration at all. The spider was merely one of literally thousands of other examples that support that theory.
When the land we call America was invaded by Europeans, the "Indians" were widely viewed as vastly inferior and insignificant animals. This is a well documented point of view. They were basically spiders (or an infestation) that needed to be eradicated except for their slight value as rape victims, land guides, slaves, and christian converts/conquests that could be boasted about to European royalty.
This may seem like a cynical point of view, but it's really not. Although our selfish motivations have led to much destruction and suffering, it's also served to further technology, extend the human life span, and enhance the overall quality of human life.
In short, if we can somehow avoid bringing about our own demise, which is something we have a selfish interest in avoiding, it's easy to see an even more prosperous and mutually beneficial future.
You see, that's the real silver lining in our selfish nature, it's to our benefit to create a more widely beneficial existence, and we, as a civilization, are learning that, even if it is at a relatively slow progression.
In time (a long time), I believe we will eliminate religion and the personal god, among many other deterrents to human prosperity, and we will take huge strides toward a far more lengthy and fulfilling existence. Because eventually we will realize the things that stand in the way of a longer, healthier, and more fulfilling life and we will squash those things like a spider.
My bold.
It is if you so define it.
I largely agree with your contention that morality is a product of self serving behavior but in my model, I expand the concept into scales of complexity greater or lesser than human.
There exist recognizable self replicating assemblages from the very small, like a gene, to the very large, such as large social constructs; a religion, a company, a country.
Any replicating entity is subject to evolution through natural selection. There will be a greater or lesser fidelity and frequency of replication depending on the individual instance and its environment. A self aware organism might make better choices which serve to extend itself and its progeny into the future. This could be looked on as selfish. Morality as commonly viewed is a codification of this behavior amongst us self aware humans. Generally and largely transparently, we ignore other scales. But it would be equally valid to see it from the gene's perspective, or that of a society.
For instance, to a company, the greatest sin might be failing to make an economic profit leading to the bankruptcy and dissolution of that company. In this case, to the company, profit is moral and selfish and bankruptcy is the evil of extinction. Not being self aware, the company cannot be cognizant of norms or intentionally act normatively. In this it is me who is maintaining a consistent definition of morality.
Altruism involves the sacrifice by some individual to the greater good which could be seen as selfish behavior by whatever benefits from such good. Working long hours and ruining a person's health would then be immoral to the person yet moral for the company. I often ask if a mother bear that, while defending her cub, kills a human hunter, is acting morally or immorally. In my view, it is both; moral for the bear, immoral for the hunter.
Your utopian statement above is shallow. The world is more complicated than you appear to realize and your simple concepts of justice and good ignore time and context. What are you doing that will be condemned by future society? I can't predict what, but I'm sure there is something. To think perfection of your own morality is arrogance. The 'greatest generation' oppressed women, persons of color and anyone not outwardly heterosexual. Were they wrong or are we? Time will tell.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?